Posts by Liberated

37

burn your Ray Franz books

by edward gentry in

jw
friends

went over to a disassociated witnesses house the other night,.

former org hatchet man,now as violently opposed to the org as he was, once, enslaved by them.. hes talkin "raymond franz says this...franz says that" all night.. it made me sick to my guts.. franz was pure borg heirachy, born and bred to power.. now hes opposed (if he aint dead by now)and these ex borg mind slaves are still listening to the guy like hes a repository of truth.. im not attacking ray franz,hes probably a nice guy,im just floating an idea.

what is a free mind?.

Liberated

Something VM44 touched on, because of the way cults operate,
controlling information and contact outside the cult, only
those who were in and got out can speak authoritatively
about what goes on.

Ray Franz said as much about publishing what he did....he
was in a unique position to share that information with
people who would have no other way of knowing. Even Ray was
not fully aware of the truth about the wts until he served
on the GB.

Perhaps some of your friend's reaction is due to the huge
disillusionment, despair, and feelings of betrayal experienced
when faced with the truth about the wts. Sometimes only anger
can ease that pain. Ray Franz was able to write about his
life-long experiences without malice or anger.

Libby

1

JW's and Patriotism

by RR in

jw
friends

here's a little article out of the st. petersburgh times.

http://www.sptimes.com/news/111101/columns/patriotism_isn_t_only.shtml.

____________________________.

Liberated

From the article: "Freedom to differ is not limited to things
that do not matter much," wrote Justice Robert Jackson. "That
would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance
is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of
the existing order." ----

JW's expelled from school for not saluting the flag...
JW's disfellowshipped from the congregation for saluting the flag...

hmmmmmmm

Libby

51

Crisis of Conscience: POLL

by Grout in

jw
friends

well, i'm finally reading coc, and i must tell you that despite already being an ex-dub i was *shocked*.

the thing that got me was the gb's apparently unselfconsciously acting above all the rules that they would apply so harshly to everyone else.

maybe i'm naive, but i didn't expect that level of hypocrisy.. so what did you find most shocking in coc?

Liberated

The woman who caught her husband with a sheep and
was not allowed a scriptural divorce because the GB
viewed it as not being adultery since the sheep
couldn't get pregnant. Whaaaaaaat????
And they disfellowshipped her when she did divorce him.
Then some five years later they reversed their view on
the adultery thing.

So it was no surprise when Ray revealed that the GB rarely
consulted scripture for their decisions, but always looked
to org rules.

Libby

28

Don't cooperate with their SHUNNING you!

by bluesapphire in

jw
friends

my dub sister planned this little event to see the lion king.

she invited my two other sisters and their families and purposely left me out.

when my family asked about me, she just shrugged her shoulders -- the little hypocrite couldn't "stumble" them by telling them she was shunning her own sister.

Liberated

THIS has been so encouraging!!!!

Bravo!!

I did that to two jw's who came into the office where I work.
I greeted them with a smile and "Hello!" They were caught off-
guard and wouldn't be rude to me in front of my boss, but it
was obvious they were irritated.

Can hardly wait for the next family gathering!!

Libby

11

Eighty five years ago today

by Skimmer in

jw
friends

eighty five years ago today, on halloween of 1916, the founder, first president, and self-proclaimed jellyfish of the watch tower bible and tract society charles taze russell passed from this mortal vale.

some believe that he met his maker on that day.

others say that he met somebody else, and that it was somebody more commonly associated with the holiday.. at the time of his death, the self-appointed "god's only true channel" taught that:.

Liberated

Russell also taught that the child of Rev 12 was the antichrist,
that the angel of the abyss, Abaddon, was the devil, Michael the
archangel represented the pope, that Russell himself was the man
with the inkhorn marking his readers with a cross...

Ahh The Finished Mystery, interesting reading.

Libby

27

lucid dream, wicked spirits, demons questions!!

by gotcha in

jw
friends

having a chinese background, it has been incorporated in our culture to believe in wicked spirits and that sort of stuff..i was wondering if any here could enlighten me with some of their knowledge with regard this subject..my mom's core reason of believing that the jws are the true religion is because of the fact that she found peace and she said that 'wicked spirits' stopped attacking her when she became a jw..(she said that sometimes she felt that wicked spirits want to rape her or something while she was sleeping/dreaming?

)i sometimes think that this is pure imagination but who am i to judge it is her experience anyways..some say that this may be a medical problem but do any of you believe that this might be true?

do wicked spirits/demons really want to 'disturb' us humans?

Liberated

Soooo, they call it "sleep paralysis" and others have had it happen
to them. I just know it's scary and frustrating and I've had it
happen before I was a jw and while I was one. (hasn't happened since
I left though, but then it was never a regular thing, and I haven't
been out but a year)

Something on my back, like sitting on my shoulders, felt like a hand
grabbed the back of my head, hard. Trying to scream and can't, trying
to move and can't. The first experience was something grabbing and shaking me. I've also had what seemed like a wolf walk across the bed, just once, stiff-legged.

I always called them demon attacks. My mom said it was a bad dream
and not to tell my dad 'cause it would spook him (guess he believed
in demons). The sleep paralysis (not being able to move or scream)
has happened to my daughters too. My sister had something choking her
and pulled her hair. But she lived in a haunted house at the time.

Libby

4

Watchtower House of Cards

by TMS in

jw
friends

is it not somewhat ironic that three embarassing, contradictory policy decisions involve the use of cards?.

these matters are all fully detailed and documented in current posts and in the archives.. 1. the mexican cartilla.

2. the political card in malawi.

Liberated

Excellent parallel TMS.

Do I have to join the wts in order to use their library? Or would
just going to meetings be enough?

Libby

22

I'm a useless Apostate :(

by NewbieGirl in

jw
friends

i've been lurking here for a while now, posted a handful of times, but this board has had a profound effect on me.. i have just finished reading coc which i would never have even heard of if it wasn't for this board.. anyway, in light of everything i have learned here, i have been waiting expectantly for the next unsuspecting jw's to knock on my door, just so i can er, 'enlighten' them.. about 15 minutes ago, just that happened.

i answered a knock on my door to be confronted by two jw's.

one of them i remembered vaguely from a neighboring cong, and the other was someone i knew pretty well from my old cong.. so what did i do?

Liberated

Try questions. They like questions because they have all the answers.

My question is going to be the one I researched that caused my exit.
(You teach Jesus returned in 1914 the same way he left, without public
fanfare and with just his faithful followers aware of it. Question:
Who were those faithful followers who were aware of it in 1914?)

I'll give you the answer ahead of time...None. It sure couldn't have
been jws because they were teaching he had already returned...in
1874, and they continued to teach that for at least a decade after
1914, maybe longer.)

But you might want to try something like: How many people have to witness a child being molested before you do anything about it?

Or, Why was the wts associated with the UN for nearly 10 years and
when it became well-known, they suddenly withdrew?

And if they ask where you are hearing these things, tell them It's all
over the internet, don't you guys keep up with anything? I'm not
even a witness and I know more about them then you do??

Also, David Reed has some excellent books that give guidelines on
witnessing to jws at Comments From the Friends that might help you
be a bit more polished about it.

Richard: My most memorable encounter, the one that has stayed with
me, answered my introductory question of How are you today? with "I am
blessed." and a smile to prove it. I never found her there again but
I kept going back because I knew she had something I did not.

Libby, too well-known for them to darkened my door, but I'm waiting.

156

I'm Screwed Up, You're Screwed Up

by Farkel in

jw
friends

i have not followed very many threads of late, so if someone has already made the same observations i'm about to make, i apologize for my redundancy.. .

i admit it: i'm part of a highly secretive, highly elite group.

(we have to drink two quarts of fresh yak blood and get a tattoo of a pentagram on our butts as part of of the initiation.

Liberated

Farkel:---"one cannot be a dub without being screwed up"---

It hurts to finally face that; the longer I'm out the more I
can see the number the org did on us.

Libby, ready for her tatoo

6

JW's mentioned on History channel

by Dan B in

jw
friends

i was watching a very interesting documentary this morning on heinrich himmler.

for those who don't follow history, he was the head of the nazi ss, and a main architect of the "final solution".

anyway, they mention the jw's as being imprisioned in the concentration camps.

Liberated

Rekless - succinctly put!!

Libby