Posts by Liberated

46

What Caused Your First Doubt ?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

for me it was when i was about twelve years old and my best friends dad was disfellowshipped from the congregation.. i could not understand how a god of love would treat someone so coldly.. i used to think what if that was the way my parents would treat me if i had done something wrong, that would be so hard and cruel.. as i got older another thing that bothered me was the beard issue.

it may sound pretty trivial however the society has always refused to make a good arguement as to why they would give you the old cold shoulder if you were to grow one.. two more items; first i could not understand why all the congregations and all the assemblys would give income reports.

and the society never did.

Liberated

Mr Magoo:

Someone will know the official standing on beards, but I thought I'd put in what I know from experience (because I asked about it). I was told that jw's could grow beards if that's what the style was around them (in the world!!) I'm guessing that included women.
Others said that jw's could grow beards but they wouldn't ever be used for anything in front of the congregation.
And at one assembly a guy with a beard was baptized.
So, maybe it's one of those unspoken things left to local interpretation???
I also heard that Rutherford despised Russell, beard and all, so everyone had to be clean-shaven. Then in more recent years in our area the Spanish brothers were allowed mustaches. (Sorry, senoras y senoritas, get out the wax!) Go figure.

Coperincus: The PO admitted that no one was aware of Jesus' return and seemed uncomfortable so I threw him a bone: Maybe the faithful and discreet slave didn't NEED to be aware of the master's return? Gulp! That must be it!! The elder with him took the fact that this being evident from the Proclaimers book meant that the wts wasn't trying to hide it, ie, was admitting it therefore it must be all right. But the wts doesn't admit it. The passages from the Greatest Man book certainly make it sound like those faithful servants knew of his return at the time of his return. In actuality they missed it by, what?, some 40 years before it? (1874-1914) and then weren't even aware of it until some 20 years after it?
Their whole authority structure is bogus....they were never appointed as the faithful and discreet slave, they were never appointed over all the master's possessions, they are SELF-appointed over peoples' lives and, when you break it down, they call THEIR OWN TEACHINGS "the truth", not the Bible. Yes, I know, they say the Bible is God's Word; but "the truth" is the "bible-based beliefs unique to Jehovah's Witnesses." So, in that case, yes, they have "the truth".

Libby (in the chatty class)

46

What Caused Your First Doubt ?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

for me it was when i was about twelve years old and my best friends dad was disfellowshipped from the congregation.. i could not understand how a god of love would treat someone so coldly.. i used to think what if that was the way my parents would treat me if i had done something wrong, that would be so hard and cruel.. as i got older another thing that bothered me was the beard issue.

it may sound pretty trivial however the society has always refused to make a good arguement as to why they would give you the old cold shoulder if you were to grow one.. two more items; first i could not understand why all the congregations and all the assemblys would give income reports.

and the society never did.

Liberated

Greatest Man Book

*** gt 131 131 Final Appearances, and Pentecost 33 C.E. ***
Chapter 131
Final Appearances, and Pentecost 33 C.E.
The manner in which Jesus has just left the earth is without public fanfare and with only his faithful followers observing. So he will return in like manner—without public fanfare and with only his faithful followers discerning that he has returned and has begun his presence in Kingdom power.

*** gt 132 132 At God's Right Hand ***
Chapter 132
A careful study of Bible prophecies, including Jesus’ own prophecy regarding the last days, reveals that “the Lord’s day” began in the history-making year 1914, yes, within this generation! So it was in 1914 that Jesus returned invisibly, without public fanfare and with only his faithful servants being aware of his return.

These two passages led me to the question:
Who were these faithful servants of 1914 who knew of his return in that year?
These would be the ones fulfilling the "faithful and discreet slave" parable/prophecy, the ones the master finds dispensing food at the proper time.

The answer I found, and the PO agreed with, is: no one.

In 1914, no one knew of Jesus' return in that year. Russell was teaching "present truth" to be that Jesus returned in 1874.
This continued to be taught for decades after 1914.

If Christendom missed the "day of her visitation", so did jw's.

1

I try my hand at poetry

by Liberated in

in their clutches (or a parent's remorse) .

young, soft, pliable .

the hook sinks deep .

Liberated

In Their Clutches (or A Parent's Remorse)

Young, soft, pliable
The hook sinks deep
Eager to please
Weighted with guilt
Bright young smiles
Slapped into submission
Wide innocent eyes
Hollowed out from fear
Supple little hands
Gripped in desperate appeal
Eager for life
Shamed into flight
Run for a while
The hook is still there
Freedom in sight………..
The line pulls tight
Snagged, trapped, ensnared
The hook sunk deep.
(I know. I helped set it)
-----------------------------------
We Are The Child Abusers

We took our children there
We slapped and spanked
At the back of the hall
We fitted them to the yoke
(The one we could hardly bare)
We pressured and forced
And withheld our love
Until square little pegs
Fitted into rounded places
And we looked good.

We lost their love
We lost their trust
We lost our children
As surely as if we had been
The ones abusing them.
------------------------
Lost Childhood Complete
The instrument that smoothed away your softness
Was the rasp of my anger and withheld love
The blades that etched the pain in your heart
Were the knife-like words I did not keep back.
The ruler that measured your every deed
Left you feeling your best was never enough.
-------------------------------

82

Has anyone felt like leaving God altogether?

by lookingnow22 in

jw
friends

i know that the answer is yes, but it would help me to hear your sentiments on this.

.

after you decided that the wbts, and thus jw's were not god's chosen earthly organization did you feel like you wanted to leave and forget god altogether?.

Liberated

I left the wts so that I could draw close to God, so that I could absorb his word without the org's interpretation of that word, and so that I could follow Jesus freely. While it never occurred to me to ever leave God, or ever to reject Jesus, it does seem possible to me to live without an organized religion in my life.
And while some claim to believe in God, they live as though there is no God; and others who say they don't believe in God, treat others as they would want to be treated, with kindness and love.

Libby

46

Leo Greenlees,

by Kiwi in

jw
friends

i seem to remember something on the board about leo greenlees being removed from bethel & the gb.

can anyone give me information about this.

is he still allive and where?

Liberated

Leo Greenlees was on the gb when Ray Franz was and is now deceased.
I don't know about his being removed from Bethel.

34

Field Service is Officially Over Forever!

by professor in

jw
friends

i hereby urge every single one of jehovah's witnesses nationwide to stop going out in field service!

according to the january 1, 1989 watchtower, our obligation to field service officially ended last year!:.

the apostle paul was spearheading the christian missionary activity.

Liberated

That was in January....by the time the bound volume came out, "20th century" was replaced with "in our time".

24

did you talk to the elders?

by Moxy in

jw
friends

on your way out, did you have the 'talk' with an elder?

(or elders?

) the kind of, 'excuse me, brother only-elder-who-i-really-trust, i've been having serious doubts about such-and-such and i would really appreciate it if you could help me see if i'm missing something, i sincerely want to know...'.

Liberated

Thanks Somebody, I read every word.

After several months of not attending meetings, the elders called on me. My grandmother had just passed away and I thanked them for coming to see me. When they started asking about my meeting attendance, I told them I thought they were there because of my grandmother's death. But, no, they hadn't even known that.
I was able to discuss a few things with them; I told them I didn't agree with everything the wts teaches and when they asked what those things were, I asked them if there was anything I could disagree with and still remain a member. I had to ask it twice because they just looked at me with jaws hanging. I guess no one had asked them that before. The PO finally said that I would have to answer that myself, so I told him my answer would be no. He indicated that as long as I didn't talk about my disagreements with others, nothing would be done to me.
I did get to ask them the question that was heavy on my mind and heart was, and that contributed greatly to my leaving:
Who in 1914 knew that Jesus returned in that year?
The answer of course is, no one. They were actually teaching that he had already returned 1874. The PO admitted it. It was a number of years before the teaching about the master returning in 1914 came about.
I finally had to disassociate because so many people were coming by and calling to find out why I wasn't at the meetings; I felt I should tell them something. This resulted in the PO calling to talk about what I was saying to others; I didn't keep our meeting. Instead I sent the following letter of disassociation:
-------------------------------------
Dear Dave,
This letter, I pray, will help to explain my absence from activity for the WTBTS and to request that my name be dropped from membership in the Rolling Oaks congregation of Jehovah‘s Witnesses. There are teachings that I do not agree with and cannot reconcile with our Father’s word, which teachings I would be required to believe and teach were I to remain a member of the WTBTS. Knowing that disassociation brings the same censor as disfellowshiping, I view these restrictions as binding only on members of the Society and not on me.
While it is my desire to discontinue activity for the WTBTS, I do not view this as a discontinuance of my association with people I know and love. How they choose to react to me is up to them. Nor is this a discontinuance of belief in and obedience to Jehovah God and his Son Christ Jesus, our Lord and redeemer. Far from it! My love for God our Father and our savior Jesus brings me to this decision in my life.
Is there any teaching of the Society that I could disagree with and still remain? I believe the answer to that is “No”; therefore, I will not go into the difference of view that has arisen as to the teaching of our Father‘s word.
I pray that peace will be yours and that Jehovah will keep watch over you and your loved ones.
Sincerely yours,
-----------------------------------------------

He came by when I was gone and left some notes and a wt article for me, which I read and responded to.
My disassociated was announced a couple months ago.

Libby
if the liberated class

26

for those who missed it, a JW headline

by Mommie Dark in

jw
friends

common sense triumphs occasionally.... !

http://www.mcall.com/html/news/pa/a_pg001a1_jehovah.htm!

Liberated

The No Trespassing signs were a constant debate in our car groups until a case like this came up and the R&F were left on their own.

So then we knew that if there was a sign and we went anyway, we could not expect any help from the wts. We marked the NT's and gave them to the letter writers.

Regarding the updating of territory cards, I had the misfortune of knocking at a DNC because the territory had been split and the DNC's had not been listed on the card.
(Much later when working the adjoining territory, I noticed my angry foul-mouthed DNC listed on that card......his address wasn't even in that territory.)

14

Moments That Make Your Skin Crawl.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

i thought that it might be fun to have a "my most embarrassing moment" competition.

if the thread takes off, first, second and third places will receive a prize guaranteed to be of no monetary value whatsoever!

so, i've had to give a lot of thought to exactly what was my most embarrassing moment as a jw.. was it as a 12 year old child travelling on the london underground, whilst being forced to wear a label that shouted in lurid purple: "gods kingdom rules!

Liberated

God, how awful, Patio. That's the worst.
I cringe for you!

23

Things to do when they come knocking

by Skimmer in

jw
friends

i encourage people not to either verbally or physically harass jws when they come knocking on the door.. saying this, i recognize that it is ever so tempting to try the following:.

1) answering the door wearing a t-shirt with a logo such as "satan rules", "member of the evil slave class", and "1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, what's next?".

2) answering the door wearing only underwear (or less).. 3) dropping a name of some governing body member and suggesting that you got to know him when he and you were in jail together, and then ask if they know if he's stopped some particular filthy habit.. 4) answering the door while brandishing a pitchfork.. 5) say that you're so glad they came and that it's good for people to have an open mind about their religion and to be willing to change; once you get them excited with this, show them a copy of the wtbts failed prophecy list (backed by quotes from their own literature) and ask if they are open minded as well.. 6) as most jws have never looked at a copy of _studies in the scriptures_, tell them that you've gotten many of your religious beliefs by pyramidology; then show them a copy of _sits_ and point to the wtbts copyright notice.. i have #5 and #6 ready for the next visit.

Liberated

Wow, Comf!!

Now that is a field service experience worth sharing!