I'm with you LB, JC is fantastic! But I liked her in the old days before the breast reduction. She must have had them reduced because they were even bigger when she was just 14 than they are now so I don't think weight loss could account for it. I think she may have changed her nose too so the casting idiots in Hollywood would take her more seriously and give her more dramatic parts instead of just the "hot girl" stuff she had to do. It's a shame because she is a real natural beauty and I don't think age or weight loss could account for all the changes I've seen in her over the years. You'll notice she has gotten better roles since she looks less stunning now. Too bad they couldn't let her just be herself. I consider myself lucky because I was attracted to my girlfriend because she looked like a young JC but thankfully, unlike JC has retained her ample figure over the years. I've heard JC has been smoking for years too which doesn't help. She still looks pretty damn good though.
Liberty
JoinedPosts by Liberty
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20
Jennifer Connelly
by LB inwith all the hype i've posted about britney i now must make a confession.
to be honest the celebrity i find the most attractive is jennifer connelly.
she most recently played a lead role in a beautiful mind.
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what does the watchtower teach that is right.
by jerome inso you dont have to say it.
could you please bear with me for a second here.. this organisation cant be all bad even though overall it is.. .
most of you may reluctantly hold the opinion that every thing the watchtower currently teaches isnt all bad so could you please give your honest opinions as to what you think is good about the org.. so what is there that can be said about it and its teachings that is good.. especially about prophecy.
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Liberty
Your logic in presenting the topic is flawed from the start. Just because a philosophy may have some practical rules or "good" values burried in it shouldn't justfy it or protect it from criticism. Nazism tought some "good" values that most people can agree with too but it was still evil in its totality. If I cut your head off while giving you a million dollars or saying a friendly hello does that make me a partially good person? If something or someone is mostly evil then they are evil. The Watchtower teaches mostly dangerous life-rejecting nonsense which on the whole unnecessarily causes pain, suffering, wasted delusional lives, and sometimes even death for its followers all in the pursuit of a completely imaginary goal. It is a FACT that the Watchtower has consistantly promised what it cannot deliver. Even traditional Christianity only promises the unprovable of life after death. The Watchtower has promised generation after generation that they would not die and yet all of them are dead or will be soon. This is FACT, plain and simple. It is evil to promise something which costs people their whole lives and then not deliver on it, especially if you know the promise is false. The Society knows it is a lie because the evidence is irrefutable and yet dupes new generations with the same old trick. EVIL, pure evil.
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More results of growing up in the "Borg"
by Liberty ina very interesting topic.
part of the reason we're all here on these sites is to share our similarities and compare ourselves to others who have gone through the same things seeking the reassurance that we are not complete "freaks" after all.
i've noticed that their are several traits that watch tower mind control commonly produces in their victims.
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Liberty
Francoise,
Your Dr. Laura-like compassion and psychological insights are remarkable. You should get your own show. Why didn't I think of the obvious answers to these problems, I'm lazy and stupid and I just need to get my act together. Your deep philosophical answers are very helpful and I'm sure that the millions of other ex-JW's never are bothered by the psychological conditions I described because it's just me and I'm the only one. You remind me of the smug-know-it-alls who proclaim they have never looked at porn so it must just be me that supports this multi-billion dollor industry because I'm the only "pervert" in the whole world. How old are you? You sound like one of the way post-75 JW kids who never took the Armageddon thing very seriously and benifitted from the reforms on higher education so maybe you don't understand what I'm talking about. I wasn't asking for help, I know what's wrong with me. I was just seeing how others felt about this stuff and what they did to deal with it.
I have coped quite well thank you. I have over 200 completed college credit hours with a 3.8 GPA despite working two jobs and recieving no financial support from anyone but me. What's your college GPA? How many jobs do you work? Since I'm so stupid and lazy you're obviously smarter and a better worker than I am you must work 4 jobs and have a 4.0 with 400 credit hours. In short, you don't know a damn thing about me so don't judge what I'm like. For someone who tells others they need to get out od their Watch Tower thinking mode you still think just like an arrogant JW. I would have expected such a response from You Know but was hurt that it came from someone who claims to be out. We're all still suffering from the Society's influence just like an abused child can never escape the damage done to them. It is possible to overcome our past but we cannot escape it completely. I wasn't looking for sympathy or help I was just wondering if other ex-JW's ever felt that these same things had limited their success. I was just asking why I am the way I am and tossing out suggestions. Since you are perfect I guess you never wondered about the potentials you never met? I have a good and productive life and have been meeting my own needs since I was 17 years old. I've made mistakes and I often wonder how my life could have been better if I'd never been raised as a JW and that's all my post was about. Haven't you ever wondered why you can't meet all your own expectations and looked for the reasons why? I am not some helpless victim just because I ask what things are holding me back from some of my goals. I also don't blame the Watch Tower for all my problems or successes. If you would have read my post more carefully you would see that I admit that my own nature was involved in my weaknesses all I pointed out was that the Watch Tower cult taps into these common weaknesses and uses them to their advantage. If your life is perfect and you have no self doubt then you are one lucky person. If this is the case, it makes sense that you have so little understanding of the rest of humanity which is obviously so far below you.
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More results of growing up in the "Borg"
by Liberty ina very interesting topic.
part of the reason we're all here on these sites is to share our similarities and compare ourselves to others who have gone through the same things seeking the reassurance that we are not complete "freaks" after all.
i've noticed that their are several traits that watch tower mind control commonly produces in their victims.
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Liberty
A very interesting topic. Part of the reason we're all here on these sites is to share our similarities and compare ourselves to others who have gone through the same things seeking the reassurance that we are not complete "freaks" after all. I've noticed that their are several traits that Watch Tower mind control commonly produces in their victims. One of the most troublesome for me has been the sense that I should use up all my resources in the here and now because there will be no tomarrow, or future as such, even though I know intellectually that there is really no impending Armegeddon I have just never learned to emotionally accept the need for insurance or retirement planning. Luckily I've fallen into jobs which make some provision for these future needs but I have no interest in expanding upon them nor do worry about what would happen if I left my job. I have no investments outside of Social Secruity and my manditory employment retirement plan. I carry no life insurance except the plan through my job and my(never been JW) girl friend is horrified by my lack of concern in these regards. Intellectually I know such things are important but I have no enthusiasm or interest in acting upon my rational knowledge. I just float through life as if I'm going to live forever and that the culture I'm immersed in is very temporary and unimportant except when it provides my immediate needs. I know such feelings are irrational and even dangerous but that's how I feel. After years of Watch Tower brain washing is it really any wonder I feel this way?
I finally finished a University degree(I had an awful time with spelling and algebra thanks to my JW attitude in High School) which was the first real acknowledgement of a rational and realistic goal with any future in mind. I have yet to put this degree to good use. I'm now approaching middle age and still have no house. I want children yet have never married nor do I have any practical plans to fullfill this desire because it feels like I have lots of time to wory about these things, yet, intellectually I know I don't. I will be an old man by the time my children are teenagers even if I had them right now. I have no savings and had an horrendous debt load before declaring bankruptcy a few years ago. Don't get me wrong, I feel wonderful since leaving the "Truth"...I mean Borg over 20 years ago but it still has an effect even now,especially in areas where human nature easily and naturally wants to go.
The Watch Tower knows how to tap into our basest emotions and instincts and living in the here and now the way an animal naturally does is encouraged by the "End of the World" mindset combined with "I'm going to live forever in a healthy young body". We JW's filled in our intellectual/cultural need to postpone gratification and practice self disciplin with the whole routine sacrifice of our lives as JW's because this was our investment/insurance plan, but we were encouraged in "worldly" matters to live as if there were no tomarrow and that's easy to do and I have continued to do this even though I know better now. After a full day of JW routine who has the energy to have "worldly" concerns anyway?
I've been lucky health wise but how long can that last? I'm unprepared for the aging process and the expenses and problems this will bring as I inevitably will fall apart. I watch uncles and aunts who were healthy and vigerous just 5 years ago sicken and die, icily reminding me that I must soon follow whether I'm emotionally ready or not. I really feel that as JW's we were all further away from the grim reality of death in a way that non-JW's find hard to understand. It is natural to put death out of our minds and "worldly" folks do this too but the WT Society takes this natural ability and stretches it to its outermost limit. We really believed we would never have to grow old and die because the "End" was always so near and the horrors we would live through, including seeing the deaths of non-believing family and friends, seemed like a realistic and even "fair" price to pay for such a reward. It's strange how this horrible price and the mass murder of the other billions made this dream of everlasting life all the more real, bypassing our natural skepticism because it didn't seem too good to be true. It brings to mind the horrible price that most Germans were willing to pay in order to establish the paradise-like Nazi Reich promised by Hitler if they just worked harder, sacrificed more, and had faith that all the nasty extermination programs and destruction would get them there. Communism uses the same tactics to get to their "Worker's Paradise" so there are victims of this kind of thinking everywhere I guess. The desire for a better life in utopian paradises, greed really, makes us insane and irrational in a slow imperceptable way that pushes common sense out of the way leaving a path for madness. Just rambling a bit. What do you all think?
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WTB&T DOESN'T USE MIND CONTROL???
by Liberty ini was stunned to see that one of our new posters doesn't believe that the society uses mind control on its members.
i think that the fact that they don't see it is evidence of just how deep the control really goes.
have they never read 1984 by george orwell?
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Liberty
I was stunned to see that one of our new posters doesn't believe that the Society uses mind control on its members. I think that the fact that they don't see it is evidence of just how deep the control really goes. Have they never read 1984 by George Orwell? This book is as close to the Watch Tower experiance as any "apostate" literature I have ever read. I'm not angry with this person I'm just in shock at how they are unable to see the manipulation. It is clear that brain washing or mind control is used by the Society because it fits the classic definitions and is identical to the techniques used by secular totalitarian governments. The only difference is in the Society's inability to use physical torture and the impossing of death sentences which, as I recall from a Watch Tower article, is bemoaned by the Society as being a tragic limitation placed upon the Society due to being subject to secular governments unlike ancient Isreal were "apostates" were tortured and killed to keep the congregation "clean".
The very meeting structure in JWdom is specifically designed to be a series of mind-numbing repeatition and memorization indoctrination sessions unrivaled in all but the most fanatical communist regimes were party meetings are held several times a week to insure idependant or "counter revolutionary" thinking does not take hold. The dailey "Hates" in "1984" were identical to the "isn't Satan and his world awful" talks we got all the time. In "1984" there was even a secret conspiracey against Big Brother led by a turn coat party official which smacks of the old "Evil Slave" crap we were scared with. The demonization of make-believe enemies is reason enough to view what we were taught as brain washing. The fact that many ex-JW's must go through counceling to help them with the irrational fear and guilt impossed by Watch Tower brain washing is also reason enough to believe they use such techniques.
Just talking to an active JW about why they believe what they believe is proof enough. Reason and logic are as far from their comprehension as worshiping Satan. I could go on and on but when an ex-JW doesn't see that the religion they left was manipulating them then they are still under its control even though they think they have left. The fear of this site's ability to allow cult victims to come together and share their experiances is another proof that these ex-JW's still don't understand how the Watch Tower pre-conditioned aversion therepy is still active in their own minds causing them to criticize others who have left but still meet together of being obsessed or involved in another cult. This is just like when I was an active JW I would say that other religons were actually cults while mine was not. I was blinded by my own ego into believing I had the "Truth" and everybody else must be wrong. This ego manipulation is the Watch Tower's chief ally in holding their victims even above shunning because the person will not admit he is being manipulated because they are too "smart" for that to happen to them..
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What's So Special About These One's?
by Englishman inim intrigued by the jws teachings re the 144,000 and i would much appreciate some input.. i mean, is their any real scriptural back-up to say that a set number of people will go from earth to heaven, or is this just a witness interpretation thing?.
also, how does this remnant become aware that they have a calling?
does the wtbts tend not to persecute these ones, if they hold views that would be deemed as apostate in others?.
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Liberty
Hi Englishman,
I'm no expert but it doesn't surprise me that you would have a hard time getting a straight answer to this subject from active JW's as it is so kooky even they don't completely understand it. Whenever some newly baptized one would ask this in the old days(late 60's early 70's) they would recieve a cold disapproving look and the sharp response,"Well, if you have to ask, then obviously you aren't so don't worry about it." I knew a couple of these "anointed" from our congregation and they were ancient as Hell even 30 years ago. Really old folks, who were in before there were two classes, were better accepted/respected/believed than younger people who made this claim. We had a young elder(late 20's) and his wife come in from California and they both claimed to be of the "anointed" but the coincidence of a husband and wife team along with their age and arogance made many suspect that they may not "really" be of the anointed but this was just quietly whispered about. In any case, it was always said that these old faithfuls who'd been in since the teens and twenties were the proof that Armegeddon was near as they were very old and frail and would not all pass away before the "End" was fullfilled because they were a part of that "Generation" who saw Christ enthroned.. Well, needless to say, they are all long since dead and still no big "A". That's what their main significance was to us back then but this is outdated now.
They were not treated that differently by the Society as I recall and if they were too divergent from the party line they would be candidates for the "Evil Slave Class" the most hated and vile thing a human could be according to JW's so most "anointed" didn't rock the boat because of this nasty label which wouldn't apply to some run of the mill earthly hope sinner/apostate. In essence, the average JW could sin and stray but be forgiven but one of the "anointed" were pretty much damned if they ever fell of the wagon cause they "knew better".
Part of the myth of how the Organization was supposidely "directed" by Jehovah was that the anointed somehow recieved "spirit direction" which was then somehow transmitted to the Society through mystical means. There was no such arrangement of coarse, but us dumb JW's believed it worked that way. It is now clear that the Society has always been directed by one or a few in the leadership who ran things their way despite what the majority of the anointed might think. We were in awe of these old anointeds because we could only imagine what it must feel like to rule from Heaven with Christ when they died and to be part of the spirit network directing the work here while they were alive. I think the Evil Slave thing worked in the leadership's favor to keep the anointed in their place and humble so they wouldn't spill the beans about the real truth of their glories yet hollow influence within JWdom.
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Has anyone felt like leaving God altogether?
by lookingnow22 ini know that the answer is yes, but it would help me to hear your sentiments on this.
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after you decided that the wbts, and thus jw's were not god's chosen earthly organization did you feel like you wanted to leave and forget god altogether?.
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Liberty
It was a long slow process but I have "left" God altogether. I suspect it was a long and painful process because of a lifetime of brainwashing that I needed a "relationship" with God. I've come to the logical conclusion that an all powerful God doesn't need my acknowledgement,praise,worship,begging,pledges of alligence,etc. in order to exist and I suspect that is why He,She, or It doesn't bother to communicate clearly and conclusively with humans if such a being(beings) exists at all. All we have is some old writings from a couple of thousand years ago and from this we're supposed to have faith that only these writings were inspired and have the keys to our salvation.
Why is the Bible more valid than any other ancient writings? It became clear to me that only because of my European-American culture is Christianity considered the "True" religion among all others. God obviously doesn't need me and if I need Him He needs to let me know directly instead of relying on Earthly "authorities" speaking in His name and "correctly" interpreting these ancient books. I think it is healthy to give up our illogical and outdated God concepts. We must rely on ourselves because I suspect that if you listen to religious experts you are still following men instead of God and I'd rather face any judgements with only myself to blame rather than pointing at some religion or their leaders and blaming them. All God gave us is each other so He shouldn't expect too much more than that we were decent humans who tried to help each other and figured things out for ourselves.
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What are 5 major beliefs in the JW religion?
by Law inwhat are 5 major beliefs in the jw religion?
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Liberty
Hi,
When you say 5 major beliefs do you mean the kookiest which are different from mainstream Christianity? What I remember being the most divergent and kooky is the 1914 stuff about Christ ruling invisibly and Satan and his demonic hoards being let loose on the Earth after being ousted from Heaven. This stuff all supposidely happened in 1914 with WWI being the "sure" sign that this was the case. No matter that WWII was much worse or that historians often point to the Napoleonic wars of the early 19th century as the real WWI. This stuff is way out there and I never realized just how whackey it was until I could view it from a distance as a non-JW. The whole being "chosen" as Jehovah's earthly organization when found worthy in 1919 from among all others is tied to the 1914 stuff and is equally whackey and just down right self serving. How would it sound f I told my co-workers that while the boss was on vacation I was found most worthy and that he had sent me a psychic memo making me his legitimate representitive while he is away? The kooky literal 144 thousand anointed going to Heaven crap while the "Great Crowd" stays on a paradise Earth is pretty unique and extra-biblical. Other religions have fallen for the "Last Days" stuff but the JW's really bought it several times on various dates allowing it to disrupt/destroy many lives. The anti-cross obsession is very strange arguing that Jesus was really "impaled" on an upright stake. Misusing the word impaled(meaning to be run through by a sharpened object) in order to avoid using the word crucified which is far more accurate for being nailed to something. I think the concept of Christ as a creation rather than God with seperate personalties is pretty unique but nothing new. Don't even know if these are most unique but these just popped into my head.
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WHY APOSTASY IS DOOMED TO FAILURE!!!
by You Know inapostasy has been the devil's most effective means of fighting against the truth.
after all, time and time again the devil was able to lure the israelites away from the worship of jehovah and in to all sorts of idol worship and whatnot.
some anointed christians in the 1st century were also induced to become antichrists.
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Liberty
Thanks for the response YK! I love you ,I really do. I've given out this invitation before but if we're still around another 40 years from now in this "Wicked Old System of Things" I'd sure love to hear your opinions then on why the big "A" still hasn't happened. Can someone hold on to a false hope that long? I'd love to meet you then and find out how. That is, if I'm not too senile to care anymore by then. In any case keep up the good work.
Your Friend,
Liberty -
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WHY APOSTASY IS DOOMED TO FAILURE!!!
by You Know inapostasy has been the devil's most effective means of fighting against the truth.
after all, time and time again the devil was able to lure the israelites away from the worship of jehovah and in to all sorts of idol worship and whatnot.
some anointed christians in the 1st century were also induced to become antichrists.
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Liberty
Hi You Know,
It's just like being back "home" again finding you here too. Even though you are probably not glad to hear from me I am glad to hear from you cause it's just like the old H2O. I was just curious to know if folks like me who never professed to be of the "annointed" are part of your "Evil Slave Class" too. I'd never even heard of Raymond Franz or any other ex-annointed JWs who published writings against the Watch Tower Society when I left over 20 years ago. I left all on my own without any ex-JWs "seducing" me into joining Satan. I'd heard of the "Evil Slave" as a general warning from the Society while associated but never once met one or read anything by them and I had no access to the Net back then either so how can I be part of the "Evil Slave" bunch? I'm just a guy who figured that the "Truth" wasn't the truth and that the Society's teachings were illogical, inconsistant, and sometimes just delusional. Years later I read some stuff that confirmed what I already suspected but this doesn't appear to be a very well organized Satanic conspiracy and I'm baffled by how you can admit that the Society is wrong on so many things, so why would both Satan and Jehovah be so inept when recruiting their earthly "armies" for the big conflict which never comes. Since it never comes why are poor old sods like myself hated so much for not believing in it anymore? You can only cry wolf so many times before the warnings fall on deaf ears. Can't Jehovah figure this out?
Best Regards From An Old Friend,
Liberty