Posts by LittleToe

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

Gumby:Aye, I see your point. I have also got to concur with you on the point of religion. I hate religion, for religion's sake. It so easily becomes a source of spiritual pride, which is as subtle as every other form of pride.

Herk:
Strangely enough, I was studying the parallelism of Ps.8:5 and Heb.2:7 (the whole chapters, in fact), just two weeks ago. My understanding is that the Jews didn't believe that Ps.8 was messianic. It was the book of Hebrews, as well as Jesus' own allusion to it (Matt.21:16) that highlighted its significance.
I see no difficulty with this, in view of Christs humiliation (Phil.2:7), and the rest of those opening chapters of Hebrews. The subject appears to be Christ, not "man" in general. Man was made in the image of God, and is served by (Heb.1:14) and will judge (1Cor.6:3) angels. The Hebrew word used for "man" is "Enosh", not "Adam", denoting a time after the fall, rather than at the time of the subjection mandate.

You seem to know a lot about what goes on inside my heart, mind, etc. and what my wishes are, for someone who lives on mainland Europe. Are you sure you don't live over here in Scotland?
I also have to ask you to cite examples of bragging, as I fail to see where I have done this.

Are we back to name-calling and issue dodging?
"Immodest, and who lacks humility and sincerity / No love of truth in you / Pagan beliefs / illogical arguments / wrong reasons".

Your comment on Luke 11 was rich. It sounds nothing like my comment about your cartoons. Besides, I'm not outraged, nor affronted. I'm a worthless sinner, who beats himself up daily, but is thankful for the grace of God. Do you really think that I think so much of myself?

I feel it is sad that I have to spend half of my reply to you repelling your vicious attacks on my character, rather than on the job at hand - discussing "The Trinity". I note that you still haven't clarified my inquiry regarding your state of relationship with the divine.

You see, I have taken the trouble of reading your three weeks worth of posts (and "Frank's"). I suspect that you haven't read mine, and have based your judgement of me on my refutation of your points, on this thread.
I do wish you would take the time to respond to the issues (in this thread), rather than react to perceived attacks.

There is no ill will intended. I genuinely wish you the best.

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

LittleToe

Herk:
You're so right - I'm transparent. Maybe that's because there's no hidden agenda's, no falsehood, no dishonesty, no unfairness, just a simple love of God and neighbour (in my imperfect way of manifesting that). Ask anyone here.

On the subject of Milleniums of belief. It seems strange that Jesus and the Apostles had to clear up some misunderstandings. Are you saying that you are content with an understanding that is over 3,000 years old, and are trying to pick and choose what parts of the New Testament fit your perspective? I'm just curious, please elucidate.

You see, the point that you really seem to be missing, with me, is that I'm quite happy for you to believe what you will. That really is your prerogative. It doesn't make me or you right.

I also strongly suspect that what any of us believe will be dwarved by the reality beheld, in glory. Meanwhile it helps us get by, and helps put a person to the One we are instinctively in awe of.

There are two key laws, both involving love. Beyond that is subject to great, and heated, debate. It is also subject to change of opinion. And strangely enough, one of the few constants in life appears to be chance.

Oh, and btw, your cartoons do nothing to bolster an image of love, nor a respect for others opinions.

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

LittleToe

Morning, all you lovely people.

Will: thanks for your openness. Am I to understand from your comments that you are a Modalist? I have no problem with your comments, even though they don't concur with my own beliefs.

I believe that your comments about viewing God "out of the box", whilst with a finite mind, are especially poignant. That's one of the reasons I smile when I see anyone alluding to the math's of God, and using simple formula, at that.

Herk: You seem oblivious to your own conduct. Further, you dodge a simple request for an acknowledgement of your relationship with the divine, and try to turn it into a perceived attack. How long have you really been on this forum, btw? I ask because you certainly appear to have picked up the mechanics and flavour of this particular one very quickly, for someone who has only been registered for three weeks.

Well, it's nice to see that at least one of us hasn't a hypocritical bone in his body, at least in his own high opinion of himself.

Interesting. I don't see how I could be deemed to be hypocritical, as I can meet each of those points. And as for a high opinion of myself, I never commented on my opinion of myself, I just asked you to confirm or deny my understanding of you - which you appear to still refuse to do. Interesting. Or am I misunderstanding, again, and are you claiming that we are all hypocrites (yourself included), but that I may be trying to exclude myself from that category? I can't see it being that one, since I never made any statements about hypocracy.

To get back on thread, are you saying, by your comments, that man was made in the likeness of angels? Are you also saying that it was angels, rather than the creator, that was instrumental in our coming to being? To my limited understanding, the text indicates a similitude between the one speaking and the one(s) being addressed.

Earnest: I take issue with your points 5 and 6. They are not factual .

Lew: I have a lot of respect for your opinion and style, too. You know that my perception of God is different from yours, however I don't have issue with your sincerely held beliefs. You summed it up very nicely in: "It isn't the trinity, but the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, not God himself. And, loving one another."

I have to concur that my "coming to Christ" was whilst in a state of belief of JW Dogma, but through a growing comprehension that Christ hadn't been preached correctly by the JW's (e.g. Rev.5:12-14, which I'd appreciate, if you would tackle). That awareness of Christ was the liberating factor, and my understanding grew day by day.

I don't have issue with anyones level of understanding, nor personal convictions. As far as I'm concerned we all comprehend things in our own way, as God permits. As has been so often stated: we can argue until we are blue in the face (throwing proof texts from all sides) but the end result will probably be that we all have egg on our faces, when we stand before the great white throne.

It all boils down to loving God, with complete surrender, and "love your neighbour".

Meanwhile we all need to keep seeking, and keep loving. I suggest that both of these aims can only be met by the grace of God, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

LittleToe

Herk:
I see you continue to twist what others write, and dodge issues. You've not even made an attempt to understand my viewpoint. I even gave you examples, but it would seem that you have no intention of reasoning on the points, but would rather jump up and down like the best of the Fundamentalists.

It further appears that you lack the experiential aspects of a living relationship with Christ (please, feel free to correct me, if you believe my perception is wrong). I suggest that you consult the writings of "AGuest", for examples of what I mean. I'd also be interested to know if you believe you've had an encounter with the Holy Spirit, since your style and content appear to betray a lack of that (again, I would appeal to you to correct me, if that is a misunderstanding).

You suggest that there are no clear teaching of the Trinity in the OT. Yet there appears a clear teaching of plurality in "let us make man in our image, in our likeness". This statement surely has three possible meanings:

God is plural
There are a plurality of gods
It wasn't really God who was speaking, but His representative, who was talking to others like him.

My point of mentioning Aton, is that this is one clear and historically attested example of a Unitarian approach to worship, in a pagan environment. As for Zeus being worshipped in Trinity, I'm afraid you must be one up on me there, because I didn't understand that to be the case at all. I understood him to be worshipped individually, as the father of a pantheon of Gods.

As for examples of Satan's counterfeits - that question barely deserves this sentence, far less a detailed reply...

As for my other points, you're given them the scantiest acknowledgement, before sidestepping them entirely.

But all that, notwithstanding, I still extend Christian love and goodwishes to you.

17

What does Jehovah think of psychic ability

by Toddhenderson in

i was wondering if anyone knows where psychic ability comes from and why i can feel when there are evil spirits in certain places!

LittleToe

Got to add a point to the comments on "prophesy" (taking this single example of psychic ability).

Whilst most Fundamental churches seem to frown on the idea, and are strictly cessationist, they have difficulty reconciling that to some of the events surrounding the various "revivals". Sadly, John Calvin took this view, too. I suggest that he possibly regrets it, now.

Personally, I have to say that I believe God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. What he has always done, he continues to do. I don't see how "prophecy" can be written off as a pasttime for a bygone age.

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

LittleToe

Something else that hasn't been tackled, is this issue. Which Trinity came first? Was it truly the Hindu or Egyptian ones, when we know that Satan loves to counterfeit things?

Why is there so much certainty that the Catholic religion emulated Pagan religions, rather than these religions springing up from an emulation of the reality of God?

Taking that tack, could we not also suggest that the Unitarian concept also has pagan predecessors? After all, those who came to the table at Constantinople, would have been familiar with Zeus. Also, Akhenaton (Amenhotep IV) worshipped Aton (I have to add here, that I'm interested in the roots of the word Amen, too, but that's another subject entirely).

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

LittleToe

Three points (very Trinitarian, huh? )

1. I see that noboby has tackled the issues I brought up about regarding "God" being a title or nature.

I heard recently that 1 John 5:7 is regaining some credibility, due to some more ancient manuscript finds. Can anyone confirm that?

2 .My question was on the side, in that I was asking for verification of what I had heard (hearsay), not that I was making this text a pillar for the debate.

2Cor.4:4

3. Whilst it is generally accepted that this text probably alludes to Satan, it is in no wise conclusive. Further, the title is qualified by "ho eon" - making the subject "the god of the ages", rather than specifically Almighty God. This was briefly discussed some months ago: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=34456&site=3

On another side issue. UnD, any chance that you could change your Profile Pic, it's driving my Browser barmy .

29

Does praying "work"?

by SpannerintheWorks in

jw
friends

has anybody got any hard evidence that asking for something, through prayer, actually gives them what they were asking for?.

jesus promised to give anything to them that asked.

have you asked for something (in prayer), but it hasn't been given?.

LittleToe

If prayer can help deal with a percentage of the psychosomatic illnesses, I would have thought it would have at least some approval from even the hardest of skeptics.

I've personally seen the benefits in my life and in the life of others. I would suggest that just praying and sitting back is very "hyper-calvinist", and unlikely to get much result, though. That can be seen experientially, as well as biblically.

If you're skeptical, yet in a bind, what's to lose? After all, you don't need a religious building around you, to do it.

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

LittleToe

Is the state of Godhood a title or a nature (distinct from angelic life)?

Is the state of Manhood a title or a nature (distinct from animal life)?

Craig:
Nice to see that you relieved the itch

I was surprised how my view of the scriptures changed when I started reading Father, when it said Father, and God, when it said God. Previously I had been trained to read them synonymously.

I heard recently that 1 John 5:7 is regaining some credibility, due to some more ancient manuscript finds. Can anyone confirm that?

25

6 months out and at times doubtful

by Leander in

jw
friends

it was in may of this year that i resigned as a minsterial servant and stopped attending jw meetings.

i made a fairly clean break from my congregation without the typical disassociation process.

while some areas of my exit were very smooth others were extremely difficult.

LittleToe

Hi Leander,
I know where you are coming from, as I'm in a similar situation. I DA'ed in January, and my wife is still a zealous Pioneer. It's an incredibly difficult and volatile situation, with no improvements, after nearly a year. And the less said about the rest of my family, the better...

Feel free to email, if you want to compare notes. Meanwhile, commiserations, I feel your pain!