Knowsnothing

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Posts by Knowsnothing

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  140

  Blame the designer and not the product: God and the lame Free Will argument

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is the one thing nobody is ever able to explain to me!.

  if a genius designs something to operate in a specific way in order to obtain a precise outcome and it doesn't work---tell me again why we don't blame the genius designer/manufacturer??.

  oh--that free will maguffin!.

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  Knowsnothing

  I've often thought how Universal Sovereignty fits into this. This, combined with that, made God essentially set-up humanity for failure, just to prove a point.

  I've thought about it many times, and it really doesn't make sense. Say Adam 'n Eve didn't rebel. Eventually somebody would question his authority and rebel. In fact, Satan had already done so, albeit it in his heart and intentions. I'd say that for humanity, it would only be a matter of time before someone rebelled. The whole premise Universal Sovereignty rides on is that God demonstrates how failed 1.) autonomy (free-will as you have explained already so well) and 2.) human/Satanic rule apart from God are.

  Not only does he condemn humanity to leave a precedent for failure, he curses the very ground they depend on, and curses humanity to sin and death. Humans are set-up for failure from the beginning. We never stood a chance. We never really ever had a choice. And all of this for what? To prove a point. To prove he has the right to rule. Talk about capricious.
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  140

  Blame the designer and not the product: God and the lame Free Will argument

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is the one thing nobody is ever able to explain to me!.

  if a genius designs something to operate in a specific way in order to obtain a precise outcome and it doesn't work---tell me again why we don't blame the genius designer/manufacturer??.

  oh--that free will maguffin!.

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  Knowsnothing

  Quick! Tell me this.

  You walk into a room in which stand two identical Robots.

  One Robot is programmed to always do the right thing at all times because of programming.

  The other Robot DECIDES ITSELF to do the right thing at all times on its own.

  Tell me how you would know the difference and what difference there would actually be??

  Your leading us to a bifurcation. Tsk tsk. The robot that can decide may be influenced by your walking in, or by other factors. The fact that you have observed it in these "laboratory" conditions doing the right the all the time is meaningless.
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  40

  The gal I'm dating frequents match.com - advice?

  by UnConfused in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i am dating a gal that i met on match.com - we saw each other first last summer, but she didn't think we were a 'match'.

  after the "pressure" was off we started hanging out quite a bit with all the benefits that go along with it.

  this went on for months.. i became smitten with her, but we weren't a couple, which she pointed out a couple of times.

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  Knowsnothing

  Just confront her about it, albeit it in a nice manner? Don't demand anything from her, just ask her where she is coming from.
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  37

  Do Jehovah witnesses exploit the most vulnerable in society?

  by Blind_Of_Lies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during my final few years being active with the jws i noticed that the vast majority of people who were studying or joining the group in general where those that the rest of society would consider disabled and/or severely mentally ill. now by disabled i dont mean i lost my leg in nam kind of disabled... in some cases these people were mentally retarded, had the minds of children, were severely abused as children or even as adults and as a result had personality disorders that put them on the edge of society.... and then we had the full on crazies... about 15 years ago one of the brothers who worked at the local welfare office somehow started a study with a person who was a paranoid schizophrenic.

  he met her because she was a client of the welfare office.

  she got handed off to a sister who studied with her, then started driving her to her doctors appointments, and to get grocerys, and took her to congregation events.

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  Knowsnothing

  How is that paranoid schizo being exploited? From what I see, she is trying to be helped.

  I think vulnerable people buy into religion in general.
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  110

  ....And what if it IS the truth????

  by MsGrowingGirl20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what next???

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  Knowsnothing

  Thanks SBC. My thoughts on your comments. Critical thinking is critical (pun intended), because we are mainly drawn to make conclusions based on emotions, relational ties, and such irrational thinking.

  I know this, because I've been through it. Feeling, believing this is the truth will not make it the truth. The truth stands regardless of where we stand.
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  110

  ....And what if it IS the truth????

  by MsGrowingGirl20 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what next???

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  Knowsnothing

  This one applies as well. It might be a little bit strong for you right now, but take it with ease.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU
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  11

  Ecclesiastes 1:4

  by therevealer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was a scripture referenced on jeopardy to-night.

  not exactly supporting the over-lapping generation is it..

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  Knowsnothing

  I still can't believe that text is used as support. It says nothing about overlapping generations....
• 
  268

  Is Biblical Morality Situational, Based Upon the Arbitrary Whims of Yahweh?

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is biblical morality situational, based upon the arbitrary whims of yahweh?

  murder is wrong... if god orders it however, then murder is right, and failing to murder is a sin.. .

  exodus 20:13 versus 1 samuel 15:1, 7-11. .

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  Knowsnothing

  I am glad I am not God so I don't have to make decisions like that. My moral perspective is too narrow and therefore I could not destroy an entire nation with kids. That doesn't mean that total annihilation is not an option with a celestial perspective. -Sabastious

  Your moral perspective is too narrow, but not because you are merely human. You fail to recognize the OT God for what he really is.

  An All Mighty, All Knowing, Perfect entity would have no trouble approaching the problem a different, more compassionate way. In fact, he seems to have a change of heart in the NT.

  2 Peter 3:9

  The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
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  32

  If you don't understand what "accretion" is---how can you understand Bible?

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  morality, in order to be anything, cannot be everything.. it cannot be both good and bad.

  a standard must be definitive.

  borders and boundries define exactly where is is.. what is the bible?.

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  Knowsnothing

  On what basis would GOD have dealings with inferior creatures incapable of perfect behavior?

  Only by LOWERING HIS PERFECT RIGHTEOUS STANDARDS!

  Isn't this the nonsensical foundation of GRACE? The innocent (Jesus) is punished and dies while the guilty sinners are pronounced righteous!

  INJUSTICE from a JUST God??

  For the sake of argument (for God in this case), I think it boils down to a more fundamental question. Why anything? God didn't have to create anything or anyone. I would go so far as to say that creating what could never aspire to be on God's level, was already a bad move? And yet, it wouldn't be, because here we are. Even if God made a bad move, you're still happy to be here, aren't you? The only way he could deal with inferior creatures is precisely by lowering his standards. There is simply no other way. No one could be on God's level.

  Guilty sinners are pronounced righteous, but only if they reform their behavior. Even then, there is always short fallings. They are pronounced righteous, not out of their own pious acts, but out of their accepting the sacrifice. Jesus dying doesn't seem all to inconvenient anyways, seeing as he was resurrected in a higher position than he was before.
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  268

  Is Biblical Morality Situational, Based Upon the Arbitrary Whims of Yahweh?

  by leavingwt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is biblical morality situational, based upon the arbitrary whims of yahweh?

  murder is wrong... if god orders it however, then murder is right, and failing to murder is a sin.. .

  exodus 20:13 versus 1 samuel 15:1, 7-11. .

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  Knowsnothing

  The Torah depicts God allowing the Israelites to conquer surrounding nations by war. -Sabastious

  Deuteronomy 7:1,2

  1 When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. [a] Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

  I ask, allowed or commanded?