What I hate about these buzz words is that when you try to press the loyal JW about the fallacy of said statements, they can always somehow come up with an excuse. That's indoctrination for ya.
Knowsnothing
JoinedPosts by Knowsnothing
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38
"Evidently" the New Watchtower Propoganda Buzzword is "Clearly"
by LostGeneration inwe have seen hundreds of examples of where the watchtower uses the word "evidently" to make their doctrinal point.
(page 9, para 6).
(page 19 para 5).
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Ex-Atheists: What Changed Your Mind?
by leavingwt in.
if you're an ex-atheist, what changed your mind?.
please be as brief or comprehensive as you'd like.
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Knowsnothing
Hey LWT, this seems to sum up your experience. I hope you don't mind my posting, to show yours isn't a unique one. BTW, thanks for mentioning this thread.
http://www.courses.vcu.edu/ENG200-dwc/hughes.htm
"Salvation"
By Langston Huges
I was saved from sin when I was going on thirteen. But not really saved. It happened like this. There was a big revival at my Auntie Reed's church. Every night for weeks there had been much preaching, singing, praying, and shouting, and some very hardened sinners had been brought to Christ, and the membership of the church had grown by leaps and bounds. Then just before the revival ended, they held a special meeting for children, "to bring the young lambs to the fold." My aunt spoke of it for days ahead. That night I was escorted to the front row and placed on the mourners' bench with all the other young sinners, who had not yet been brought to Jesus.
My aunt told me that when you were saved you saw a light, and something happened to you inside! And Jesus came into your life! And God was with you from then on! She said you could see and hear and feel Jesus in your soul. I believed her. I had heard a great many old people say the same thing and it seemed to me they ought to know. So I sat there calmly in the hot, crowded church, waiting for Jesus to come to me.
The preacher preached a wonderful rhythmical sermon, all moans and shouts and lonely cries and dire pictures of hell, and then he sang a song about the ninety and nine safe in the fold, but one little lamb was left out in the cold. Then he said: "Won't you come? Won't you come to Jesus? Young lambs, won't you come?" And he held out his arms to all us young sinners there on the mourners' bench. And the little girls cried. And some of them jumped up and went to Jesus right away. But most of us just sat there.
A great many old people came and knelt around us and prayed, old women with jet-black faces and braided hair, old men with work-gnarled hands. And the church sang a song about the lower lights are burning, some poor sinners to be saved. And the whole building rocked with prayer and song.
Still I kept waiting to see Jesus.
Finally all the young people had gone to the altar and were saved, but one boy and me. He was a rounder's son named Westley. Westley and I were surrounded by sisters and deacons praying. It was very hot in the church, and getting late now. Finally Westley said to me in a whisper: "God damn! I'm tired o' sitting here. Let's get up and be saved." So he got up and was saved.
Then I was left all alone on the mourners' bench. My aunt came and knelt at my knees and cried, while prayers and song swirled all around me in the little church. The whole congregation prayed for me alone, in a mighty wail of moans and voices. And I kept waiting serenely for Jesus, waiting, waiting - but he didn't come. I wanted to see him, but nothing happened to me. Nothing! I wanted something to happen to me, but nothing happened.
I heard the songs and the minister saying: "Why don't you come? My dear child, why don't you come to Jesus? Jesus is waiting for you. He wants you. Why don't you come? Sister Reed, what is this child's name?"
"Langston," my aunt sobbed.
"Langston, why don't you come? Why don't you come and be saved? Oh, Lamb of God! Why don't you come?"
Now it was really getting late. I began to be ashamed of myself, holding everything up so long. I began to wonder what God thought about Westley, who certainly hadn't seen Jesus either, but who was now sitting proudly on the platform, swinging his knickerbockered legs and grinning down at me, surrounded by deacons and old women on their knees praying. God had not struck Westley dead for taking his name in vain or for lying in the temple. So I decided that maybe to save further trouble, I'd better lie, too, and say that Jesus had come, and get up and be saved.
So I got up.
Suddenly the whole room broke into a sea of shouting, as they saw me rise. Waves of rejoicing swept the place. Women leaped in the air. My aunt threw her arms around me. The minister took me by the hand and led me to the platform.
When things quieted down, in a hushed silence, punctuated by a few ecstatic "Amens," all the new young lambs were blessed in the name of God. Then joyous singing filled the room.
That night, for the first time in my life but one for I was a big boy twelve years old - I cried. I cried, in bed alone, and couldn't stop. I buried my head under the quilts, but my aunt heard me. She woke up and told my uncle I was crying because the Holy Ghost had come into my life, and because I had seen Jesus. But I was really crying because I couldn't bear to tell her that I had lied, that I had deceived everybody in the church, that I hadn't seen Jesus, and that now I didn't believe there was a Jesus anymore, since he didn't come to help me.
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Atheists: Lowest Retention Rate Next to JWs
by breakfast of champions inarticle found here.. .
those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by georgetown university's center for applied research in the apostolate (cara).only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults.
this "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.. there were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey.
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Knowsnothing
Here is the problem with trying to pin-down beliefs. We are constantly taking in new information and evaluating our beliefs. Our beliefs change over time. Society, the way we were brought up, a need for self-identity and identifying with a group, and the list goes on, all influence our beliefs. Our beliefs/lack of beliefs may not even be that strong, we've just never questioned them.
How many active JWs only remain so for sake of family, and not for belief? How many identify as Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, Hindu, etc. based on culture and not on belief? How many atheists claim to belong to no religion, yet have a wide variety of beliefs ranging from spirit-worlds, ghosts, to supernatural phenomena and re-incarnation?
I think an interesting statistic to show would be who is practicing the religion and personally ask the person what they believe, not who they identify with. You might get an interesting answer.
Why don't born-in atheists (for lack of a better term) remain atheists? That would be something to ask them. Perhaps they can't identify with other atheists, given atheists can have such a wide variety of beliefs in the after-life and the here-and-now. There isn't anything particularly unifying about being an atheist, unless you were born in a certain religion, and then proceeded to reject it (obviously like a lot of us here). You will most likely identify with that particular set of individuals, because you would share a common experience.
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I've been enlightened.
by Emery inive been lurking for quite sometime and now feel the need to come and noob it up.
it's taken a lot to bring me to read anything critical of the wts.
i used to glance at these apostate sites and shutter in fear because of the obvious demonic venom that can be found :) i am still an active witness and have been in this struggle to stay both in and be removed mentally from this organization.
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Knowsnothing
Welcome!
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"You are so Focussed on The Past that you can't see the Blessings in front of your Eyes!"
by BluesBrother inthat statement has been made to me recently - i think it is a sound-bite from the new dvd about jerusalem's fall.. hmm.. i need to reflect on a reply .
several thoughts come to mind but it has to be constructive and form a reasoned argument rather than a smart answer.. what blessings?
are we unreasonably obsessed with the past?
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Knowsnothing
Ok, how about the now? What blessings exactly are you talking about? Would you be willing to admit faults now? Or is that something you are willing to gloss over, always?
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'Obey the organization like Moses'--why this is wrong
by sd-7 ini was just thinking about how the watchtower often compares the organization's position to that of moses.
challenging moses, in their retelling of the biblical account, equated challenging god's authority, as korah, dathan, and abiram did, to their own peril.
the conclusion we are to gain from this is not to challenge, question, or disagree with the watchtower society's teachings even in our private thoughts.
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Knowsnothing
Sd, the Organization is better than Moses. They have reached all corners of the earth. Why not obey them? Clearly they have Jehovah's blessing. Why are you bitter man?
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Peter Singer Atheist Champion "A Pig Is Worth More Than A Disabled Person!'"
by Bubblegum Apotheosis inrichard dawkins at a recent conference for atheist, told his followers to mock muslims and christians for their stupid beliefs!
we have been down the path of this kind of thinking dawkins, harris and peter singer promote, it lead to the near irradication of the jews, gypsies, disabled, mentally ill and any other undesirables who were not contributing to the greater good of hitler's, stalin's, pol pot and mao's ideals.. .
can we address the issue at hand, how would you debate peter singer's statement that a "pig is more valuable than a disabled child, human"?
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Knowsnothing
I think this is a serious topic that should be further explored. Do we really need to keep vegetative people on life-support? What good does that do to 1.) the person and 2.) society?
Eugenics, for those that choose it, doesn't seem immoral to me. We've all got to go at one point. If our situation is hopeless, why prolong it?
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The "Secrecy Policy
by Celestial ini've given this recent lawsuit quite a bit of thought and come to sound conclusions.
after examining other organization's child-protection policies (namely churches), what i've come to realize is there's a one-size fits all solution that's socially acceptable; all information obtained through witnesses and confessions by organizational personnel is be used to aid and abet law-enforcement.
there's no in-between or anything short of this objective that's socially acceptable.
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Knowsnothing
Guys, Celestial surely doesn't side with pedo's. He's just caught trying to defend the JWs, because his mind cannot fathom another reality.
I guess what he doesn't realize is this same legalistic logic can be used to defend Catholicism's pederasty.
Wake-up Celestial. Defend the children, first and foremost.
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**MUST READ** AlanF's email to Knocking.org
by sf inthis is a must-read that, hopefully, will stay an "active topic" for all seekers and lurkers, by bumping it to the top as often as possible.
alan wrote it in randys {dogpatch} thread regarding knocking.org documentary and in reply to the email mr. engardio sent to barbara anderson.
however, it is so vital a read that it indeed needs its own thread:.
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Knowsnothing
I think this is great, I'm just quite saddened there was never a response back. They went ahead and pushed their pro-JW agenda.
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A Question For the Guys...
by Quendi inthis thread was inspired by the "a question for the ladies..." thread and anybody is welcome to post.. if you are now free and clear of the wts, how have your dress and grooming changed?
i'll start the ball rolling by saying that i made some changes that i really like.
i'm down to two suits and they are only for job interviews and perhaps some solemn occasion.
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Knowsnothing
I like growing out my goatee. Not much of a goatee, but then again, who can stop me!? MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA