i've given this recent lawsuit quite a bit of thought and come to sound conclusions.
after examining other organization's child-protection policies (namely churches), what i've come to realize is there's a one-size fits all solution that's socially acceptable; all information obtained through witnesses and confessions by organizational personnel is be used to aid and abet law-enforcement.
there's no in-between or anything short of this objective that's socially acceptable.
Guys, Celestial surely doesn't side with pedo's. He's just caught trying to defend the JWs, because his mind cannot fathom another reality.
I guess what he doesn't realize is this same legalistic logic can be used to defend Catholicism's pederasty.
Wake-up Celestial. Defend the children, first and foremost.
this is a must-read that, hopefully, will stay an "active topic" for all seekers and lurkers, by bumping it to the top as often as possible.
alan wrote it in randys {dogpatch} thread regarding knocking.org documentary and in reply to the email mr. engardio sent to barbara anderson.
however, it is so vital a read that it indeed needs its own thread:.
I think this is great, I'm just quite saddened there was never a response back. They went ahead and pushed their pro-JW agenda.
this thread was inspired by the "a question for the ladies..." thread and anybody is welcome to post.. if you are now free and clear of the wts, how have your dress and grooming changed?
i'll start the ball rolling by saying that i made some changes that i really like.
i'm down to two suits and they are only for job interviews and perhaps some solemn occasion.
I like growing out my goatee. Not much of a goatee, but then again, who can stop me!? MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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have you ever stopped to ask yourself why you are so damned smart?.
Terry, I don't consider myself smart. There is always something to learn...
i've given this recent lawsuit quite a bit of thought and come to sound conclusions.
after examining other organization's child-protection policies (namely churches), what i've come to realize is there's a one-size fits all solution that's socially acceptable; all information obtained through witnesses and confessions by organizational personnel is be used to aid and abet law-enforcement.
there's no in-between or anything short of this objective that's socially acceptable.
Here's a question. Given that in the congregation it is considered of first and foremost importance to "obey God above men", who get's the priority on confession of child molestation, the congregation (the elders), or the authorities? Obviously the authorities, but according to Celestial's logic...
In view of the above statements, congregation elders can do little next to nothing to aid and abet law-enforcement by collecting information from their congregants. At best, they can route information to the respective authorities, but ultimately, an eyewitness has to cooperate with the authorities and corroborate their observations in a court of law. In all practicality, it shows initiative on the part of an eyewitness to contact the authorities from the onset.
The only other way an elder would know anything is if a molester voluntarily confesses something to an elder.
Eyewitness corroboration isn't the the only testimony available. Depending on the length of time that has passed since being abused, forensical analysis is useful as well. Of course, forensics doesn't apply to this case.
“For Plaintiffs expert to be allowed to provide her opinion that churches must report "confirmed" child abuse to parents, other adults, and public officials, the Court must rule that her opinion is now the law in California, and the California Clergy-Penitent Privilege is no longer good law.”
I agree with this. The Clergy-Penitent Privilege must be taken down, or at least have an amendment added that makes an exception for punable acts. Of course, how do JWs even get to have a say if they can't even vote....
If the Clergy-Penitent Privilege is destroyed on behalf of Jehovah's Witnesses, they'll have no means to “ID these people” through the process of confession.
Confession need not be the only way to "ID these people". Besides, if the elders cannot inform the congregation of the specific actions of an individual, then how exactly does confession lead to the congregation's need to guard their children from the perpetrator?
What about Jehovah's Witnesses child protection policy do you want to change?
Stop the two witness rule. Children are vulnerable, and abuse can go on indefinitely, so long as it's only a child's word vs. an adult's.
If someone confesses, that should be the last time abuse can ever come from that person. Obviously going by the books isn't going to cut it, and there needs to be a much more robust system to prevent this from happening after the first reported offense.
found this website this weekend by jws who recognize there are issues within the organization and are calling for change.
this is the type of forum moderate jws needs, imho.
glad to see moderate jws are out there and are doing something.. http://www.jwreform.org/.
From the site:
Therefore, like faithful servants of God in times past, our people feel it is their duty before Jehovah to speak up and speak out when the need arises. As did the Lord Jesus himself, we do not look the other way when we see any injustice done to God's people.
We strongly believe that the religious leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses will receive a heavy judgment from Jehovah if they continue on their present course with regard to these matters. It is time for change. It is our hope and our faith that through the voice of his people, Jehovah will see to it that matters are set straight.
My comment:
There is no such thing as a reform movement in a cult. Even if they succeeded in toppling the powers that be, they in turn would take that position and soon start the same cycle over again. Prophecy would now be interpreted as having been fulfilled in them, etc., etc., ad nauseum.
In fact, I'd say the whole 'Protestant' movement helped create a lot of different cults and that the mother cult is Christianity itself.
TL;DR Successful cults are successful.
This sounds like the Milgram Experiment, only it isn't an experiment, and the Watchtower cannot ever be questioned.
Let's hope your son comes to senses one day.
when there are hundreds of thousands of toys in the market, why buy your child the magical toy?..
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You see Mr. Facts, all toys are magical. They play on the imagination.
Allow me to illustrate your point further. When there are hundreds of thousands of books that don't condone divine violence, why raise your children by the one that does?
i had posted a few comments on cedars sparlock song on youtube.
mostly that i didnt feel that parents should manipulate their children into behaving.
i also didnt think parents had the right to raise thier children in such a crazy restrictive way.
Lost, I still believe there is a way to get through. If they've ever gone to Disney Land, enjoyed any good Sci-Fi in a book or on tv, seen Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, etc.... then all you have to do is point out to them that unequivocably nothing supernatural ever happened while being entertained with such things.
I found this part of the response ironic:
With all of that said, I'm curious... why waste so much energy fretting over that part of that DVD? Why not make a video about REAL problems, like child abuse, neglect, animal abuse, domestic violence, etc. No offense (literally... I'm not trying to offend you or be sarcastic), but did you even watch the DVD?
Hoooooooo boy! Wait till you tell her about Candice Conti! And why not let the WT make a video on those subjects, or better yet, address it's own problems on child abuse? Hypocrite.
i had posted a few comments on cedars sparlock song on youtube.
mostly that i didnt feel that parents should manipulate their children into behaving.
i also didnt think parents had the right to raise thier children in such a crazy restrictive way.
Sigh... this is what is so depressing about any deeply held ideology/belief/dogma/political stance, etc.
Diest, why don't you just respond, then, that any dramatization of the Bible that includes violence, miracles, any thing of a sexual nature, and so on should also be kept from children?
Tell that lady to stop going to Disney Land, stop watching tv, and to pull that kid from school. See how she responds...
