Posts by wyorobert

106

I'm Starting To Understand Atheist and Evolution

by Philadelphia Ponos in

for many years i was sincerely perplexed when someone told me they believed in the evolution theory or were an atheist.

i never understood how someone could ignore all the evidence for intelligent design and overlook all the holes in the evolution theory.

for example, the human biology clock is synced with the rotation of the earth, the earth is the perfect distance away from the sun to sustain life, the earth has an ozone layer to protect us from the sun's radiation, the earth naturally produces fruits and vegetables to be used for food, our bodies produce enzymes to break down the fruits and vegetables so it can nourish us, the earth produces water and oxygen, etc.

wyorobert

I enjoyed your post, but think it is a bit of an oversimplification to say Atheists exist primarily because they had a bad experience with religion. I understand why you would have that impression. It is often the catalyst that makes people want to look behind the curtain.

I have no desire to convert anyone to my way of thinking, but I also know that I am incapable of deciding there is a God because everything in the Universe is so amazing. On some level I envy your ability to believe in a God, but at the same time I think it requires a certain naivety. At some point there has to be a beginning.

If there was intelligent design then where did that entity come from? Even if there was intelligent design, does that automatically mean there is a God or just some really smart being who died long ago? Please understand that I respect your beliefs, and I seek no converts. I do however enjoy having a forum that allows me to have these conversations. Maybe someday someone will find the logic to convince me that God exists. Maybe someday I will find out that UFO's are here from another planet. I hope to always have an open mind about anything and everything, but in the meantime, I respectfully disagree with your assertion and hope you will continue to make your points. I've never understood why everyone thinks we all have to have the same beliefs. I think it is fantastic that we all contribute from a different point of view. The only issue I have is with religions who seek to promote their beliefs at the expense of mine.

34

To my fellow atheists:

by NomadSoul in

just curious to know the steps that brought you to become an atheist.

just wanted to shared mine in a nutshell:.

1. learned that evolution had credibility.

wyorobert

Quick Correction. I meant to say 1 Tim. 2: 11&12 instead of 1.

34

To my fellow atheists:

by NomadSoul in

just curious to know the steps that brought you to become an atheist.

just wanted to shared mine in a nutshell:.

1. learned that evolution had credibility.

wyorobert

I still can't see myself as an atheist, so I prefer Secular Humanist even though it is about the same. I'm willing to leave the door open to the possiblity that life was created by someone or that there could be life after death, but as of this writing, no such evidence exists for me.

I started by questioning my own Mormon religion, which took very little time using their literature to prove that it was just fiction. When I finished that journey I went next to the Bible, and unfortunately for me the same logic that led me to leave the Mormon religion applied to the Bible. At least the Bible was rooted in real events, but I could see no proof of God having a hand in any of it.

I asked myself if the Bible stories would withstand close scrutiny from modern sholars. I came up with an idea that Faith was something all religions used to make us believe that which shouldn't be believed. My mantra became "Faith is the absolute belief in something that may or may not exist". Since I saw faith as unreliable, I was left with nothing else to prove the existence of God. I decided to try and prove the existence of God or even the divinity of the Bible. I accept only the Historical proof of the Bible and that leaves me with even less still. My Sunday school teachers used to love to quote Josephus. Thank heavens for Josephus and other Historians of the time, but the real truth is that Josephus never wrote anything about Christ at the time. No Historian who existed during the time of Christ even mentions him. The one small reference he makes about Christ is so obviously added by another writer that people don't even pretend anymore that he said anything about Jesus.

I won't bore you further, but the journey I started on which requires logic and not faith, leads further away from the existence of God and not closer. For some reason I feel more peace having this knowledge, than I ever did trying to force myself to believe things that made no sense at all. Even in my youth, I struggled with so many Bible stories. Not the least of which is poor old Lot being taken advantage of by being seduced by his daughters. That is just one of a long list of scriptures that just didn't work for me. I don't care how drunk Lot was, it was his daughters for crying out loud. I do however miss my Sunday School teacher asking which scripture was my favorite. I always said 1 Tim. 1:11,12. At least on those days it was never boring. It was just my way of saying, "Hey some of these scriptures are a little odd".

35

Why does God permit suffering? Don't let others answer this question for you

by sabastious in

jw
friends

wasn't the answer to this question wrapped up in a neat little package when you were young?

it was easily explainable and it made you feel so warm inside that you knew that god felt passionately bad about the suffering and that it was going to stop.. there is so much pain in this world.

people are starving, people are being torchered by others who have lost their minds, there is endless suffering on this planet.

wyorobert

strymeckirules,

I must admit, I enjoyed the way you managed to follow your condescension with an illogical scenario that could easily be expanded to anything. You have an interesting view of the universe and if I use your logic, I'm sure I can find a reason why children are responsible for all bad things happen in the world. Perhaps, before you start being condescending towards others, you should review your own logic.

you need to expand your reasoning ability.

for your first example, the little girl's problems are a result of the kidnappers failure to make correct decisions leading to the rape and murder. the girl is a innocient victim. she never chose her ending. it was chosen for her.

and the second example of the little boy starving and diseased, is it his fault or is it his parents fault for bringing in a child they are not able to care for? or the leaders of that country for not supplying food and medical aid. it's not the boy's test. it's everyone around that boys test to help him. or they could choose to turn a blind eye.

will a human do what's right without screwing over another human? the golden rule

24

The first Jehovah's Witness I ever met is now my wife.

by wyorobert in

our story like many of yours is way too crazy and long to tell.

the short version is that i was crazy about my wife from the minute i met her.

she seemed to like me and before we had time to think about anything, she left her husband and religion and moved in with me.

wyorobert

Nickolas,

I agree, but in every situation doing what is right is different. I am happy for you that your are confident that those things come from staying the course. In my case, with the benefit of hindsight, it was definitely the right decision to completely alter my course and start new again. I wish I hadn't wasted 18 years thinking that staying in my marriage was for Love, loyalty and family values.

31

my story....

by losecontrol in

well i am new to this, and i must admit that at first i was very opposed to this site.

i grew up being a witness and was warned about looking into apostate things, which is exactly what this site would be that they are referring to.

i always tried to live my life the best that i could under the societys control, and never really got to have any life experiance at all.

wyorobert

Lose control,

I was about to say the same thing as Simon17, until I got to his post. I agree that you have to have a heart to heart with your wife and just ask if the reason for her leaving is based soley on the religion. Sometimes the cummulative affect of fighting these battles adds up and she may feel like she needs a fresh new start away from you and her religion. I think before you blow your religious affilitation out of the water, you might want to make sure this isn't about the relationship. I'm not saying I don't think you should leave, but you might want to take it one small step at a time. You could end up losing your religion and then your wife all at the same time.

24

The first Jehovah's Witness I ever met is now my wife.

by wyorobert in

our story like many of yours is way too crazy and long to tell.

the short version is that i was crazy about my wife from the minute i met her.

she seemed to like me and before we had time to think about anything, she left her husband and religion and moved in with me.

wyorobert

Rocky, that would be fine. I've haven't done the PM thing before, but I'll give it my best shot.

24

The first Jehovah's Witness I ever met is now my wife.

by wyorobert in

our story like many of yours is way too crazy and long to tell.

the short version is that i was crazy about my wife from the minute i met her.

she seemed to like me and before we had time to think about anything, she left her husband and religion and moved in with me.

wyorobert

Rocky,

Good luck. I know how hard it is going to be on you. Early on, I didn't think my wife would stay, and the one thing that drove me crazy was thinking about the idea that they wouldn't ever let her talk to me again and she would eventually see me as the bad guy and not the one who rescued her. I don't envy what you will face eventually.

I am a Secular Humanist, but try to respect evryone's beliefs who are willing to give me the same courtesy. I am curious to know your religious background, but understand if you don't want to share that information.

24

The first Jehovah's Witness I ever met is now my wife.

by wyorobert in

our story like many of yours is way too crazy and long to tell.

the short version is that i was crazy about my wife from the minute i met her.

she seemed to like me and before we had time to think about anything, she left her husband and religion and moved in with me.

wyorobert

Nickolas, Thanks again for the link. Very interesting reading. I am struck by this statement:

If she suffered from dementia, I would stay with her. If she broke her neck or had a stroke and needed 24 hour care, I would stay with her. That's just the way it is. Maybe someday she'll wake up.

I spent 18 years in a marriage I knew was a mistake the very next morning after the wedding. I realized very quickly that my ex-wife had a serious mental illness. I didn't have the heart to leave her for exactly the reason's you state above. Eighteen years and two children later, I left her because I realized I wasn't doing her any good and it was taking too much of a toll on me and everyone else. The dumbest think I ever did was stay in that relationship for the reason's you just stated. For the next 10 years after the divorce I still looked after her every need. At some point I realized that trying to do what I thought was right had the opposite affect on everyone. There is a point in time when it is okay to worry about yourself. I always put everyone first. I finally realized that allowing myself to put me first made me stronger and better able to help other people. Looking back, I now realize that getting my divorce was the happiest day in my life. It took a lot to give myself permission to do what was right for me. I'm not giving advice, especially not here, but I do understand where you are coming from.

24

The first Jehovah's Witness I ever met is now my wife.

by wyorobert in

our story like many of yours is way too crazy and long to tell.

the short version is that i was crazy about my wife from the minute i met her.

she seemed to like me and before we had time to think about anything, she left her husband and religion and moved in with me.

wyorobert

Rocky, Unfortunately I think you are right. So what is the next step? It sounds like you have to save yourself. She sounds like a wonderful person. I understand your financial ties, but also think you are postponing the inevitable. I am surprised at how accepting her family and congregation seem to be of you. They must think you are about to join.