Posts by wyorobert

106

I'm Starting To Understand Atheist and Evolution

by Philadelphia Ponos in

for many years i was sincerely perplexed when someone told me they believed in the evolution theory or were an atheist.

i never understood how someone could ignore all the evidence for intelligent design and overlook all the holes in the evolution theory.

for example, the human biology clock is synced with the rotation of the earth, the earth is the perfect distance away from the sun to sustain life, the earth has an ozone layer to protect us from the sun's radiation, the earth naturally produces fruits and vegetables to be used for food, our bodies produce enzymes to break down the fruits and vegetables so it can nourish us, the earth produces water and oxygen, etc.

wyorobert

The question I have to ask at this point is does any of it matter to you if it is true or not. There was no life on earth for about 1.5 billion years. It was the perfect distance from the sun for a very long time. It isn't really that hard to imagine that exactly the right circumstances finally occurred for just the simplest of life forms. An unimaginable period of time has passed since then.

If I'm not mistaken, man learned how to make industrial diamonds because a meteor created them by accident. Diamonds formed out of seemingly nothing, then by backtracking they followed a process and learned how to create diamonds. By the way there is life in the deepest part of the ocean under unbelievably high pressures near vents that have incredibly high temperatures. For all life that exists near those vents, they are at exactly the right depth and extreme temperatures. Did God put the vents at exactly the right depths or did life adapt to those extreme conditions?

I also want to say that I'm pretty sure most scientists think that if they find a planet just like this that is the right distance from the sun, there is a pretty good chance that there will be life. They are looking for those situations all of the time.

There is also the possiblity that life was transported from another planet by a comet hitting earth and spreading life in that way. Sort of like a bird eating a fish and transporting eggs to a remote lake and life begins again. There are a lot of possiblities for how life began. It's just that a lot of us have a hard time believing that God appeared out of gas and smoke and created the earth by magic. I understand that from your vantage point this makes no sense. From where I stand and many others there needs to be some logic. To say that science makes no sense when it is backed by real evidence and then say God exists even though there is no evidence just doesn't work for me. The wonderful part of science is that it tries to discover the real truth as new information comes along.

16

Why do I feel bad about my children leaving the JW religion?

by lifeisgood in

jw
friends

(please, no jws come in here to convert me, i don't want to talk to you).

i left the jw religion after twenty years.

i had one teenager and two small children then.

wyorobert

I've asked myself the same question about a different religion. I am here because my wife is a former JW and my life is impacted by the shunning and all the other fun things that inadvertantly create drama, whether we play along or not. I was raised in a religion many think is a cult and left after a careful study of what I believed.

Since I had a similar experience with my children, I think you are feeling bad because you now bear the responsibility that your religion once held. You didn't have to guide or direct them because it was all laid out for them to follow. A sort of paint by numbers plan that was suppossed to keep them in the company of good people and close to God. It is likely that you don't really know what to teach them now or how to guide them. Since they now recognize that all those years were wasted, it also gives you a bit of a credibility problem in trying to teach them at this late stage. I also think that you may have wanted them to believe in something you cannot. I am happy for my children that they are able to feel close to God in their own way. Everyone's experience is different. Who am I to judge them. Maybe in some small way you wanted them to have that closeness, even though you new you could not. I have no belief in God, but it is silly for me to stand in judgement of those who do.

106

I'm Starting To Understand Atheist and Evolution

by Philadelphia Ponos in

for many years i was sincerely perplexed when someone told me they believed in the evolution theory or were an atheist.

i never understood how someone could ignore all the evidence for intelligent design and overlook all the holes in the evolution theory.

for example, the human biology clock is synced with the rotation of the earth, the earth is the perfect distance away from the sun to sustain life, the earth has an ozone layer to protect us from the sun's radiation, the earth naturally produces fruits and vegetables to be used for food, our bodies produce enzymes to break down the fruits and vegetables so it can nourish us, the earth produces water and oxygen, etc.

wyorobert

I already explained my reason's for not believing in God. I can have my beliefs without being bothered by the opionions expressed by Ponos. It does seem like a few of the comments were a little harsh. I think Ponos can take it, but it struck me that self righteous JW arrogance stayed with some of you. I'm not judging, just noticing.

106

I'm Starting To Understand Atheist and Evolution

by Philadelphia Ponos in

for many years i was sincerely perplexed when someone told me they believed in the evolution theory or were an atheist.

i never understood how someone could ignore all the evidence for intelligent design and overlook all the holes in the evolution theory.

for example, the human biology clock is synced with the rotation of the earth, the earth is the perfect distance away from the sun to sustain life, the earth has an ozone layer to protect us from the sun's radiation, the earth naturally produces fruits and vegetables to be used for food, our bodies produce enzymes to break down the fruits and vegetables so it can nourish us, the earth produces water and oxygen, etc.

wyorobert

I enjoyed your post, but think it is a bit of an oversimplification to say Atheists exist primarily because they had a bad experience with religion. I understand why you would have that impression. It is often the catalyst that makes people want to look behind the curtain.

I have no desire to convert anyone to my way of thinking, but I also know that I am incapable of deciding there is a God because everything in the Universe is so amazing. On some level I envy your ability to believe in a God, but at the same time I think it requires a certain naivety. At some point there has to be a beginning.

If there was intelligent design then where did that entity come from? Even if there was intelligent design, does that automatically mean there is a God or just some really smart being who died long ago? Please understand that I respect your beliefs, and I seek no converts. I do however enjoy having a forum that allows me to have these conversations. Maybe someday someone will find the logic to convince me that God exists. Maybe someday I will find out that UFO's are here from another planet. I hope to always have an open mind about anything and everything, but in the meantime, I respectfully disagree with your assertion and hope you will continue to make your points. I've never understood why everyone thinks we all have to have the same beliefs. I think it is fantastic that we all contribute from a different point of view. The only issue I have is with religions who seek to promote their beliefs at the expense of mine.

34

To my fellow atheists:

by NomadSoul in

just curious to know the steps that brought you to become an atheist.

just wanted to shared mine in a nutshell:.

1. learned that evolution had credibility.

wyorobert

Quick Correction. I meant to say 1 Tim. 2: 11&12 instead of 1.

34

To my fellow atheists:

by NomadSoul in

just curious to know the steps that brought you to become an atheist.

just wanted to shared mine in a nutshell:.

1. learned that evolution had credibility.

wyorobert

I still can't see myself as an atheist, so I prefer Secular Humanist even though it is about the same. I'm willing to leave the door open to the possiblity that life was created by someone or that there could be life after death, but as of this writing, no such evidence exists for me.

I started by questioning my own Mormon religion, which took very little time using their literature to prove that it was just fiction. When I finished that journey I went next to the Bible, and unfortunately for me the same logic that led me to leave the Mormon religion applied to the Bible. At least the Bible was rooted in real events, but I could see no proof of God having a hand in any of it.

I asked myself if the Bible stories would withstand close scrutiny from modern sholars. I came up with an idea that Faith was something all religions used to make us believe that which shouldn't be believed. My mantra became "Faith is the absolute belief in something that may or may not exist". Since I saw faith as unreliable, I was left with nothing else to prove the existence of God. I decided to try and prove the existence of God or even the divinity of the Bible. I accept only the Historical proof of the Bible and that leaves me with even less still. My Sunday school teachers used to love to quote Josephus. Thank heavens for Josephus and other Historians of the time, but the real truth is that Josephus never wrote anything about Christ at the time. No Historian who existed during the time of Christ even mentions him. The one small reference he makes about Christ is so obviously added by another writer that people don't even pretend anymore that he said anything about Jesus.

I won't bore you further, but the journey I started on which requires logic and not faith, leads further away from the existence of God and not closer. For some reason I feel more peace having this knowledge, than I ever did trying to force myself to believe things that made no sense at all. Even in my youth, I struggled with so many Bible stories. Not the least of which is poor old Lot being taken advantage of by being seduced by his daughters. That is just one of a long list of scriptures that just didn't work for me. I don't care how drunk Lot was, it was his daughters for crying out loud. I do however miss my Sunday School teacher asking which scripture was my favorite. I always said 1 Tim. 1:11,12. At least on those days it was never boring. It was just my way of saying, "Hey some of these scriptures are a little odd".

35

Why does God permit suffering? Don't let others answer this question for you

by sabastious in

jw
friends

wasn't the answer to this question wrapped up in a neat little package when you were young?

it was easily explainable and it made you feel so warm inside that you knew that god felt passionately bad about the suffering and that it was going to stop.. there is so much pain in this world.

people are starving, people are being torchered by others who have lost their minds, there is endless suffering on this planet.

wyorobert

strymeckirules,

I must admit, I enjoyed the way you managed to follow your condescension with an illogical scenario that could easily be expanded to anything. You have an interesting view of the universe and if I use your logic, I'm sure I can find a reason why children are responsible for all bad things happen in the world. Perhaps, before you start being condescending towards others, you should review your own logic.

you need to expand your reasoning ability.

for your first example, the little girl's problems are a result of the kidnappers failure to make correct decisions leading to the rape and murder. the girl is a innocient victim. she never chose her ending. it was chosen for her.

and the second example of the little boy starving and diseased, is it his fault or is it his parents fault for bringing in a child they are not able to care for? or the leaders of that country for not supplying food and medical aid. it's not the boy's test. it's everyone around that boys test to help him. or they could choose to turn a blind eye.

will a human do what's right without screwing over another human? the golden rule

24

The first Jehovah's Witness I ever met is now my wife.

by wyorobert in

our story like many of yours is way too crazy and long to tell.

the short version is that i was crazy about my wife from the minute i met her.

she seemed to like me and before we had time to think about anything, she left her husband and religion and moved in with me.

wyorobert

Nickolas,

I agree, but in every situation doing what is right is different. I am happy for you that your are confident that those things come from staying the course. In my case, with the benefit of hindsight, it was definitely the right decision to completely alter my course and start new again. I wish I hadn't wasted 18 years thinking that staying in my marriage was for Love, loyalty and family values.

31

my story....

by losecontrol in

well i am new to this, and i must admit that at first i was very opposed to this site.

i grew up being a witness and was warned about looking into apostate things, which is exactly what this site would be that they are referring to.

i always tried to live my life the best that i could under the societys control, and never really got to have any life experiance at all.

wyorobert

Lose control,

I was about to say the same thing as Simon17, until I got to his post. I agree that you have to have a heart to heart with your wife and just ask if the reason for her leaving is based soley on the religion. Sometimes the cummulative affect of fighting these battles adds up and she may feel like she needs a fresh new start away from you and her religion. I think before you blow your religious affilitation out of the water, you might want to make sure this isn't about the relationship. I'm not saying I don't think you should leave, but you might want to take it one small step at a time. You could end up losing your religion and then your wife all at the same time.

24

The first Jehovah's Witness I ever met is now my wife.

by wyorobert in

our story like many of yours is way too crazy and long to tell.

the short version is that i was crazy about my wife from the minute i met her.

she seemed to like me and before we had time to think about anything, she left her husband and religion and moved in with me.

wyorobert

Rocky, that would be fine. I've haven't done the PM thing before, but I'll give it my best shot.