Makena1

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Posts by Makena1

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  51

  Crisis of Conscience: POLL

  by Grout in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i'm finally reading coc, and i must tell you that despite already being an ex-dub i was *shocked*.

  the thing that got me was the gb's apparently unselfconsciously acting above all the rules that they would apply so harshly to everyone else.

  maybe i'm naive, but i didn't expect that level of hypocrisy.. so what did you find most shocking in coc?

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  Makena1

  Bboy - I think I understand where you are coming from. You would have preferred that he not promote any deity?

  Don't you think however that his credibility (which was shakey at best with the target JW audience) would have been greatly lessened IF he had promoted agnosticism, atheism, deism, paganism, or any other ism? He was not dogmatic on the trinity or other Judeo-Christian concepts.

  I like the way he left it open to develop a relationship with the Creator - whatever name you give him. You are basically free to go wherever "to get your ears tickled". :)

  Makena
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  51

  Crisis of Conscience: POLL

  by Grout in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i'm finally reading coc, and i must tell you that despite already being an ex-dub i was *shocked*.

  the thing that got me was the gb's apparently unselfconsciously acting above all the rules that they would apply so harshly to everyone else.

  maybe i'm naive, but i didn't expect that level of hypocrisy.. so what did you find most shocking in coc?

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  Makena1

  To bboyneko who wrote: Ray franz's book helped me tremendously but I did not like his advocation of another religion.

  I just finished reading part of COC for a second time - I got the complete opposite feeling - that he was NOT advocating any other religion. Instead, promoted personal study, a personal relationship with God and getting together in small groups for fellowship not under the auspices of any organized religion.

  Not trying to make a big deal about this - just want to be sure I did not miss his intent.

  Makena
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  25

  Reasons to Quit

  by Frenchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  -some of you might recognize that caption as the title to one of merle and willie's biggest hits but this is not about drugs and alcohol but about something many of us here hold in common.. i have read many reasons stated here for those who have left the organization either formally (through df'ing or da'ing) and those that are still technically in but mentally out.

  some (quite a few as i expected) have left to pursue lifestyles inconsistent with teachings which they evidently once held dear (they were questioned about those beliefs prior to baptism) but have now abandoned.

  that reasoning is absurd but it makes good sense to the rank and file.

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  Makena1

  Frenchy - great post. Need to read it again to let it all sink in.

  This statement was particularly telling for me: "One of my daughters told me once after she was grown and married that one of the things that endeared her to me was the fact that on those occasions where I was wrong, I admitted it to them (the children). Why would a person or an organization, knowing full well that they were mistaken, not own up to the error and admit it straightforwardly instead of resorting to the fabrication of the nebulous term “increasing light”? To err is human, to deny the error is silliness."

  The inability of my father to ever admit that he was wrong is one of the prime reasons we no longer speak - and that was while I still served as an elder. Its possible that he does not even know that I no longer consider myself a witness.

  Admitting that we make mistakes, even to our children does NOT lessen the authority of our voice - it enhances and endears. Why can't the WTBS understand this simple but profound concept.

  Does anyone remember reading the apology from the church that Armstrong founded as Ray Franz quoted in COC? If I had been a member of that group and contemplating leaving - I would have stuck around a bit longer to see if they were true to their word of apology.

  I would go a little farther and say -"To err is human, to deny the error is criminal."

  Makena

  Between believing a thing and thinking you know is only a small step and quickly taken - Mark Twain
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  51

  Crisis of Conscience: POLL

  by Grout in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i'm finally reading coc, and i must tell you that despite already being an ex-dub i was *shocked*.

  the thing that got me was the gb's apparently unselfconsciously acting above all the rules that they would apply so harshly to everyone else.

  maybe i'm naive, but i didn't expect that level of hypocrisy.. so what did you find most shocking in coc?

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  Makena1

  The Malawi / Mexico thing was a big one for me too. However, the one that hit me the hardest was the way the GB passed decisions on huge decisions that affected people's - blood products, organ transplants, alternative service, what you can be disfellowshipped for this year as opposed to next year, in addition to the doctrinal changes, and dishonesty on reporting the true history of events. The 2/3's majority rule to effect a change showed no real evidence of holy spirit directing decisions. GB members too busy with other paper work to research important issues, high power members influencing the vote of quieter members. What a let down showing how disunited the top level management is!

  Makena

  It is wiser to find out than suppose - Mark Twain
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  14

  To Battman, RE: Door to Door stuff

  by troubled in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi battman,.

  "the original greek that was written says that paul taught.

  them in their "houses of worship" not house to house and.

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  Makena1

  OK - going from memory on this one. However, I believe in Search for Christian Freedom, Ray Franz recounts a conversion that his uncle Fred Franz had with the GB about this. F Franz speaking about the literal translation of house to house said something like, "it could mean going in the front door of a house, and out the back door."
  The rest of the group thought he was joking, but apparently he was serious. As others have said, a complete discussion is found in the book showing the weakness of the JW argument for house to house territory style ministering.
  How many people do you know came in and got baptized via the door to door work in the last 10 years? Incidental witnessing, brainwashing children of JW parents is much more effective.

  Makena
  Have not knocked on a door for almost 3 years - and proud of it.
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  30

  JW & SUICIDE CASES

  by bj in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i need all cases that you know about.

  if possible, names and dates.

  if you have newspaper articles, photos, court cases, web-reference, would be glad to learn about them.

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  Makena1

  Hi BJ - could you provide more details about this upcoming conference? Also, are you in Belgium? Curios to know if the Gillette's are still serving at the branch there.

  All best,
  Makena
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  52

  Active JW's Who Question The UN/WTBTS...

  by zev in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one question.

  have any of you who have written to the borganization, about the un/wtbts relationship, heard any replys?

  i know many of you have.. i'm not looking for details, though you can include them as you see fit.. a yes or no will do for now.. thanks so much.. .

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  Makena1

  Wiz wrote:
  Maybe the JWs want this system to end quicker by this ploy. Get the beast(s) to turn on them, by their own device, so to speak, and get it all over with. Right now.

  the WTBS turns on the UN to encourage the UNs wrath. Martyrdom"

  That thought occurred to me briefly too. However, the way you present does not fall in with their end games timetable unless I am missing something.

  Makena
  Not worried about end games anymore
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  21

  YMCA=apostasy?

  by TweetieBird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  references have been made recently about joining the ymca is considered apostasty by the wts.

  what action could be taken against someone (inactive jw that occasionally goes to meetings, they still give me a km each month even tho i haven't been in service for a couple of years and i do not attend the thursday nite meeting) like me?

  the reason i am asking is because we joined the ymca a few months ago and have a draft taken out of our bank account for the membership dues.

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  Makena1

  Sorry to say, but there HAS been new light on the YMCA thing.

  It is no longer considered a religious organization - now the JW caveat is that:

  "You can get yourself clean, and hang out with all the boyz"
  Y - M - C - A..........

  ;)
  Makena
  too much time on my hands today - posting fluff at will.
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  31

  Young People Ask book

  by crownboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how many of you guys really believed and took to heart every word that was written in it?

  i was recently rereading it and it was ridiculous how sophomoric and unrealistic some of the answers to the questions were (e.g.

  when you have the urge to engage in the "sin" of masterbation you should pray to god untill the urge goes away.

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  Makena1

  Ranchette: I wonder if we were in your congregation? Don't think so, but the story sounded familiar.

  My wife, a pioneer at the time, gave the talk - our daughter, around 10 at the time was the householder. Will have to ask her how it went - I think I was out of town on business.

  I never developed a good poker face - so giving that talk would have been pure hell for me.. :)

  MegaDude - loved your approach to the issue - however, do not think it would have gone over well at our KH - at least among the adults.

  Makena
  still a young person at heart...if you get my drift.
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  7

  Eternity Rightly Scares Me

  by D wiltshire in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  eternity scares me.. since time can conceivable go back eternally and goes on in the future eternally we can never know completely what happened in the past.. we can not even comprehend what the eternal future will be like.. and so i hope that the master of eternity is good in the absolute sense.

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  if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

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  Makena1

  Strangely, as a young thinking JW (is that even possible?) the thought of being destroyed at Armageddon and going into the oblivion of an eternity of nothingness, frightened me more than hell or purgatory.

  Makena
  Now just getting old and not being able to hit a tennis or golf ball frightens me.