If I ever succeed in getting my family out.....THEN I will gladly post my name, city, state and favorite brand of underwear. I would have no reason to hide at that point.
outsmartthesystem
JoinedPosts by outsmartthesystem
-
-
-
-
51
Uber Dub wants to have dinner....
by outsmartthesystem inok. the good news is that my wife has eased up on the whole "talking it out with the elders" thing.
she now insists that she is doing her"own independent research with unbiased materials" on some subjects.
unbiased?
-
-
outsmartthesystem
"Duuuude, you have GOT to expand your circle of friends!!!"
Trust me. I'd like to. But at this point....my wife is still somewhat "afraid" of worldly people. In her witness mind.....hanging out with worldly people is the first step to participating in a drunken orgy. If she knew I was hanging out with "worldlies".....she'd be in constant fear of me getting sucked into something evil. Cause', ya know......all "worldly" people are drunken, fornicating drug addicts.
-
20
If your mate remains in the org...
by Silent_Scream insome here have had the bonus of their mate leaving with them.
unfortunately, my wife is die-hard.
everything in the org makes sense and if it don't, thats fine too.
-
-
outsmartthesystem
Agreed. Don't cheat on her. She doesn't deserve that. And you're better than that. Besides...if you do....she'll be hurt. She will find comfort from her "friends" at the KH. And it will ingrain in them the belief that all people that choose to leave the organization do so because they are sick and demented apostates that can't control their sexual impulses. You'd be feeding their theory
-
83
Popularity Contest
by Voices ineverywhere i've gone, no matter what, there's always a 'popularity contest' (which i'm a loser to)... whether it was in the organization (based on how high you went up the chain of command or who you married for the sisters), the school system such as high school, college, etc.. or job.
who does the hardest work, who does what, when how.
even on this website.
-
-
outsmartthesystem
I vote for Egg and his nonsensical ramblings
-
45
How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT
by LanaMich19 ini have someone in my family that is a jw and she has engaged me in conversation.
for the record, i consider myself an evangelical christian.
after some debate and research, i backed out of a verse by verse debate and switched the convo to get on some common ground, asking if she believe the bible was the inspired word of god.
-
-
outsmartthesystem
Also, read Captives of Concept by Don Cameron. It will explain fully why the JW believes so deeply in their irrational teachings. It is because they are captive to teh concept that the men at the top of the organization (the governing body) were given authority by Jesus himself....and all others are to listen and be obedient.
-
45
How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT
by LanaMich19 ini have someone in my family that is a jw and she has engaged me in conversation.
for the record, i consider myself an evangelical christian.
after some debate and research, i backed out of a verse by verse debate and switched the convo to get on some common ground, asking if she believe the bible was the inspired word of god.
-
-
outsmartthesystem
MrFreeze - Keep in mind that the WT tries its best to create a division/difference between "directed by God's spirit" and "inspired". They claim that bible writers were "inspired" therefore they got nothing wrong. But today...no one is inspired. But the GB is "directed by God's spirit". Which basically means that God is still leading them and only them....but since they aren't "inspired".....you can't point the finger at them when they are wrong.
The more I learn the more I realize that Steven Hassan's method of releasing a witness from the mental bonds they are in is the only way to accomplish freeing someone from this cult.
Read "Releasing the Bonds" by Hassan and you'll understand why your friend simply won't see any logical points you try to make.
-
23
The new writing department of the WTBTS
by Aussie Oz inthere is a new writing department in wt land.. us.. think about it, the watchtower/jehovah's witnesses are a reactive 'religion', not a proactive one.. that means of course that they react and modify doctrine, rules and direction in response to what ever may be effecting them.
probably the last time they were proactive was the 40s and 50s but these days its all about preservation rather than growth.. i am sure that the actual writing department have eyes and ears out in 'aposta land'.
after all, who discuss and disect the books, magazines and letters more than we do?
-
-
outsmartthesystem
"Well, if so, it might be interesting to see what new lies they come up with to explain away their near admission that the Faithful and Discreet Slave isn't real,"
On the contrary. This will easily be explained away when the GB brings back the concept of modern day "theocratic warfare". And uber dubs will way "wow! look how smart they are! Jehovah directed them to lie use clever semantics about themselves. How happified I feel!"
-
23
The new writing department of the WTBTS
by Aussie Oz inthere is a new writing department in wt land.. us.. think about it, the watchtower/jehovah's witnesses are a reactive 'religion', not a proactive one.. that means of course that they react and modify doctrine, rules and direction in response to what ever may be effecting them.
probably the last time they were proactive was the 40s and 50s but these days its all about preservation rather than growth.. i am sure that the actual writing department have eyes and ears out in 'aposta land'.
after all, who discuss and disect the books, magazines and letters more than we do?
-
-
outsmartthesystem
inbetween.....you nailed it spot on.
But don't forget the other catch 22 as a witness. If you don't do deep spiritual research then you are a babe. But if you do deep spritual research and you find out the truth about the truth.....then you were "looking for a reason to be stumbled......and obviously have a wicked heart since you were looking for imperfections".
-
51
Uber Dub wants to have dinner....
by outsmartthesystem inok. the good news is that my wife has eased up on the whole "talking it out with the elders" thing.
she now insists that she is doing her"own independent research with unbiased materials" on some subjects.
unbiased?
-
-
outsmartthesystem
"If I were in your shoes, I'd tell Uber-Stupid that I'd LOVE to have him over for dinner, as there's this co-worker/neighbor/mailman that you have daily contact with, who is asking questions about 607 B.C./1914 and Christ's "invisible" presence/blood transfusions-organ transplants/whatever subject you know well, that would cause major problems for Uber-Stupid to explain away the Watchtower Corporation's stance upon said issue/bible teaching..."
That'll never work. My wife and kids will be there too. My wife knows where I stand with everything. And she knows 607BC is one of my biggest problems with the society. She knows I think 607 is bullshit. If I were to bring it up at the dinner table and ask him for advice on "how to answer a co-worker's question".....my wife would know that I am putting on a clever ruse. She would know that my real intent was to sew a seed of doubt in his head. Then we'd fight all the way home about me "putting apostate ideas in other peoples' heads". Not good
"You should check in the yellow pages under rentals and see if anyone rents monkeys. "
Shamus....where do you live? They don't exactly rent out monkeys to the general public here in the U.S. :)
"When we were fading, we still got invites from some of the 'uber' dubs, but these seemed to be the only ones who truly cared about us. I know that doesn't say much for the rest of our 'acquaintances' from the hall; out of sight, out of mind. But, because we really enjoyed being with the ones who had invited us and loved them for who they were, witness or not, we could put up with their probing questions as to why we were lagging in attendance, not doing the weekly service thingy, etc. These people really were trying to help us (in their own way!)"
See....that's the thing with this guy. He has never been a friend. I honestly think he DOES worry about me and my "lagging spirituality". I truly do think he cares....he is just overbearing and completely tactless. Years ago I was out in service with him. I watched him insult a householder's conviction about "once saved always saved". When her attitude turned cold toward us and we left......he was truly clueless as to what made her change suddenly. He's not stupid either. Just overbearing and tactless.
Overall....I think I can get away with not going. I'll just tell my wife that the situation can't end well. She knows how I feel about the organization. And she knows how overbearing this guy can be. If I ask her to reason on the matter and put herself in my shoes (having to deal with tactless, probing questions) I think she may understand why I dont' want to go. I may even take a couple of people at the KH that I like and use them as examples. I may say "now had THIS person invited us over.....I would go because THIS person has tact and knows when to shut up".
-
51
Uber Dub wants to have dinner....
by outsmartthesystem inok. the good news is that my wife has eased up on the whole "talking it out with the elders" thing.
she now insists that she is doing her"own independent research with unbiased materials" on some subjects.
unbiased?
-
-
outsmartthesystem
"Who the f*** does he think he is inviting himself over for dinner? Oh god, I can't stand JW's. "
Oops. Sorry. I don't want to sensationalize the story. I should have clarified. He wants US to come to HIS place for dinner. But still....I'd be captive over there. Plus....he lives in the government funded projects. I don't know if I want my children over there.
"Does your wife think this uber dub is a great example for you or does even she roll her eyes at his excessive devotion to the borg?"
It is kind of a double standard with her. Yes she thinks that he is "overzealous" sometimes.....but it is excusable to her because she'd rather someone be overzealous than not zealous at all. But as soon as I make the same observations that she did about him....she immediately sees my "bad attitude" shining through.
"Just so you know, outsmart, if it comes up again with uber doober, it will go better with you if you are "mad at Jehovah" than if you are mad at the Org."
Ya know....this never ceases to amaze me. Somehow God can forgive measly humans who dare show anger towards the almighty.....but he can't forgive measly humans who dare show anger towards a human organization?
"Go and tell him the truth about the truth. Guaranteed you won't get anymore calls or invites. Remember, it takes two witnesses for judicial action. "
But those two witnesses don't have to both see the same "crime" right? Therefore I'd be treading on thin ice. All it would take is my wife to mention something to her father that I said.....and then we'd officially have two witnesses, no?
"Either way, the CO will be impressed with him... don't give him that pleasure..."
I didn't want to sound paranoid....but this actually crossed my mind. I started to wonder if there is already (since my wife talked to the PO and CO about my "issues" an underground investigation going on and this uber dub was brought into the fold to see if he could breach the veil.
"Which leaves the only relevant question: Is he a good cook?"
I have no idea. Thus far in the 5 years I've known him I have managed to avoid this situation.
"It would be better to be angry with Jehovah compared to anger with the org! It reveals the problem. If you do not like him, why bother? You know what he will say. Do you think he is going to reveal that he is about to go apostate?"
Certainly not. My only reason for doing so would be to show my wife that I am not an evil, mean apostate. Remember, the society paints anyone that would dare question them as evil, crazy, bad-hearted people that seek to ruin other humans. If I refuse to go she could possibly see it as me taking one more step towards the deep end (i.e. refusing to have "wholesum' association). She'll say to herself...."wow. The brothers were right. First he stopped going in service. Then he stopped commenting. Then he stopped going to meetings. Now he doesn't want upbuilding association anymore. The next step will be apostate literature!" Unfortunately NOT going plays right into the hands of what the elders have undoubtedly been telling her about me.