Posts by outsmartthesystem

9

Studying with a JW, need info about Watchtower doctrine.

by Resistance is Futile in

jw
friends

my spouse was raised as a jw but is now free from the "organization".

i've got a ton of in-laws who are still jw's, but have noticed that a lot of the younger ones are starting to slowly realize something is not right in the so called "truth".

i've been studying off and on with one of the relatives and planting little seeds of doubt.

outsmartthesystem

So does Jehovah have a flowchart to help him decide whose prayers to listen to?

The JW response: He does not need one. He is God. He can tell by your heart whether or not you accept his wonderful organization. If you don't then praying is futile.

"Since I was never "baptised" (i.e. did not come to know Jehovah), then Jehovah may be hearing some of my prayers. Wow! That saved the day. LOL."

Not exactly.....it may not be written anywhere...but I had a CO tell me once that just because a person may have escaped disfellowshipping doesn't mean that he is a lock to get into the new system. If he has a bad heart Jehovah will know. Likewise....If you knew enough about the "truth" to get baptized but chose not to.....then God won't let that simple little technicality stop him from dismissing your disgusting and vile prayers.

Isn't this a lovely organization?

15

This seems fishy .. Is this a scam?

by average joe in

i received this message in my inbox here at this site.

to my dear .

my dear one my name is appolonia i came across your profill from (www.jehovahs-witness.net)and became interested .

outsmartthesystem

Uh......yeah.

I've PM'd many people to pick their brains. Never once have I asked for a photo

49

The rise and rise of Paul Gillies?

by JWB in

jw
friends

the rise and rise of paul gillies?.

here are a view details about the 57-year-old paul stuart gillies.. .

2011: appointed as a director of international bible students association (ibsa) on 2 november having resigned as a director of watch tower bible and tract society of britain on the same day.

outsmartthesystem

Ya know....it is crap like that that makes me wonder if GB members ever have a sit down discussion with certain individuals (like Mr. Gillies) and say...."boy oh boy.....if ONLY you were one of the annointed! There would sure be a spot on our GB for you!" And then suddenly.....he begins partaking!

9

Studying with a JW, need info about Watchtower doctrine.

by Resistance is Futile in

jw
friends

my spouse was raised as a jw but is now free from the "organization".

i've got a ton of in-laws who are still jw's, but have noticed that a lot of the younger ones are starting to slowly realize something is not right in the so called "truth".

i've been studying off and on with one of the relatives and planting little seeds of doubt.

outsmartthesystem

The Jan 15 WT of 1990 (p 4-6) states, "So then, once we have learned that we should pray to God in Jesus’ name, our prayers would not be answered unless we prayed only to Jehovah through his Son……He could approach his heavenly Father through Christ Jesus with the expectation of being heard. That is what happens to all who dedicate themselves to God through Christ and get baptized. They too have the unrestricted privilege of prayer. Surely you desire to have your prayers answered. Therefore if you are not now serving Jehovah as one of his dedicated worshippers, how wise to seek him earnestly!"

A Watchtower from May 15, 1990 (p 11-12) also says "….only baptized believers have an unrestricted privilege of approaching the King Eternal in prayer".

I would ask......"Where in the bible does it say that? True, the account of Luke 18: 9-14 shows that the prayers of haughty ones are not desirable to Jehovah and the account of Proverbs 15:29 plainly says that prayers of wicked ones are not even heard. But these verses are regarding the haughty and wicked. Of course Jehovah doesn’t answer their prayers. But I have trouble believing that Jehovah only gives unrestricted access to Him through prayer once you get baptized. The bible does not teach this, yet it is taught by the Society as though it is actually in the bible. Why is that?"

They will dance around the subject and more or less explain that yes God listens to the prayers of those "in the world"....but only if they are seeking to worship Him purely (through the organization). Once a person is familiar with Watchtower teachings and does NOT accept them....THEN that person's prayers are no longer heard by God

16

Pornography harms

by JeffT in

jw
friends

.

outsmartthesystem

There was actually a time in my life when I was addicted to porn. And it was a destructive influence for me. But contrary to elder belief.....I believe the problem was within ME. Everyone has their vices. For me it was porn and I needed to get control of it. For others.....it is gambling. For others it is alcohol. Take gambling for instance. Yes I gamble periodically. But in no way am I addicted. Yet I have a friend that won't even enter a casino because he can't control himself once he starts. Do I think gambling is necessarily wrong? No. But for HIM it is.....because that is his vice. For the borg to stand up and declare each and every form of entertainment as inappropriate is obtuse. Yet for an individual to notice that a particular form of entertainment IS a problem for him and to ignore it is certainly not healthy either. I think the real challenge can be simply taking note of IF you do have an unhealthy addiction.

15

Question for previous elders...very important.

by diana netherton in

jw
friends

does a criminal conviction, say for fraud, render one disfellowshipped?.

just had some rather disturbing news about a so-called jw relative.... .

thanks!.

outsmartthesystem

"So as long as you're repentant, it doesn't matter"

Not true either. Yes....if you kiss the asses of the elders on the JC.....you may very well live to fight another day. But if one or two of them have a vendetta against you.....regardless of how repentant you are.....it could be all over.

Here is a true example. Elder Joe is the ministry school overseer. Swell guy. Just got done giving me an earful for lack of participation in meetings and no service time. 10 days later Elder Joe is disfellowshipped for adultery. Now.....Elder Joe is a sincerely good person. Elder Joe was having an affair and realized how wrong he was. He confessed. He was front row and center with tears in his eyes when the announcement that he was disfellowshipped was made. Any man that is front row and center for such an announcement had to have been repentant in his JC. Yet supposedly only "unrepentant" wrongdoers get the boot? Are you telling me that this man looked the elders in the eye and said that he is NOT remorseful.....and then showed up with tears in his eyes for the announcement of his own disfellowshipping just days later?

And consider this. Yet another true story. I was once dating a presiding overseer's daughter. (well....not really. We were both 17. We "liked" each other but weren't allowed to date of course). She told me about a problem that her dad was having with another elder. (yes....her dad blabbed secretive elder stuff to her) My girlfriend's older sister was having a jucicial committee meeting for "immoral activities". The other elder (who was on the sister's JC) approached him and attempted to make him an offer he couldn't refuse. He said "I'll go easy on your daughter if you do the same for my kids if they ever get in trouble".

Wrong verdicts are made. Vendettas are carried out. "Deals" are made. It happens. Certainly not all the time but it happens

15

Question for previous elders...very important.

by diana netherton in

jw
friends

does a criminal conviction, say for fraud, render one disfellowshipped?.

just had some rather disturbing news about a so-called jw relative.... .

thanks!.

outsmartthesystem

A criminal conviction will not necessarily lead to disfellowshipping. True story. I know a guy that was 20 years old and slept with a 17 year old girl. 4 years later he was arrested for statutory rape. He served 9 months in jail. He had a judicial committee and expressed remorse for the one time (ha!) lapse in judgement. The elders believed him. He was not disfellowshipped.

67

More Young People Are Leaving The Organization!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i've heard that another 2 people have left the "truth" as soon as they could get out.

both girls were elder's daughters.

they aren't elders now because they were somewhat problem teens.

outsmartthesystem

This damn cult will NEVER cease to exist. Yes, the internet is a thorn in their side. And yes if they actually begin experiencing negative growth (who knows....they may be already but are cooking the theocratic books to cover it up) they will some day have to address it. Hell even if the entire GB was removed and jailed for molesting children.......they would be replaced by others who would say that the allegations are false and their imprisonment is nothing more than a trial by Satan (7 million followers would then pray for these jailed men). Or perhaps the replacements would disfellowship the exiting GB members and tell the 7 million followers "Jehovah has cleansed his temple.....and placed WE are now the GB" (7 million followers would then pray and thank God for cleansing his temple).

The point being.....it does not matter how much about them is exposed or what scandals they are caught up in. Even if they decrease from 7 million to 100,000 in the coming 50 years.....they will STILL exist. There will always be hardliners that simply cannot accept anything other than the lie they've come to believe.

10

Cantleave, I need your help please

by freshstart in

jw
friends

i was reading your story on freeminds.org, but for some reason it doesn't finish.

it stops at the part where you say that you traveled a lot for work and missed quite a few meetings.

there's nothing after that.......

outsmartthesystem

Dozy - I am so happified by that!

26

My story in more detail

by freshstart in

so as i stated in my first post, i was born to witness parents.

from early on, my parents were both quite fanatical about the "truth.

" we couldn't even eat lucky charms cereal because they thought it had satanic connections.

outsmartthesystem

Thank you for sharing. Even with the hell you went through....at least you have your husband and child WITH YOU now....and OUTSIDE of this terrible cult