Posts by metatron

1

Are C.O.s out of the Loop?

by metatron in

jw
friends

this is an honest question.

i thought that it was pretty.

much automatic that letters sent to the society that.

This is an honest question. I thought that it was pretty
much automatic that letters sent to the Society that
involved serious accusations, like child molesting were
also sent to the local circuit overseer. I ran into a
case recently where I'm not sure this has happened
(altho there was sufficent time - and the accusations
were credible and specific about elders' knowing)

Have things really sunk this low? Are incidents of
molestation and corruption so common that the Society
doesn't bother to inform the C.O.? (once they've
determined that a lawsuit is unlikely?)

I'm honestly wondering

metatron

40

WHY THE DOLLAR IS DOOMED

by You Know in

jw
friends

jesus pointed out the hypocrisy of those in his day whose faithlessness led them to become intransigent in the face of jesus' credentials as the messiah and all that that entailed as to jehovah's judgments.

likewise, the prophets indicate that ridiculers and apostates will proclaim themselves to be unconvinced concerning the evidence of christ presence and impending judgment of this system.

jesus' rebuke is equally applicable today, where he acknowledged that his generation was expert in using their powers of reason to interpret the changing clouds and winds to accurately predict the next day's weather, and yet jesus said of them: "hypocrites!

metatron

Pure crap

Show me an "apostate" who says "that will never happen".
ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN! It's just that your wild unsupported,
and often, unscriptural ravings lack credibility. Your
past false prophecies don't help either. You are buying into
assertions made by people trying to sell buillion over stocks.

As for me, I think growth will be anemic and I'm accumulating
silver long term (like Mr.Buffet) due to the demand
projections.

metatron

29

Will You Make Room for Pioneering?

by TMS in

jw
friends

regardless of scriptural implications, creating special categories of service such as colporteur, pioneer, special pioneer, etc.

was a brilliant move.. the prestige, status and few little perks associated with those committing to being full-time workers is miniscule compensation for their sacrifice of time, lifestyle, income and educational opportunities.. yes, the hour requirements have dropped on several occasions.

how many on the board know that the regular pioneer requirement was once 150 hours a month, then 1200 hours a year, than 1000, now 90-vacation/assembly time?.

metatron

Jesus was an apostate, Fred
Since it is a relative term (you have to stand against
some religious authority), he was an apostate relative to
the hard-core Pharisees

metatron

18

Musings on the WTS Funk

by Farkel in

jw
friends

the watchtower society is in a funk.

no doubt about it.

it is stagnant and paralyzed by its own inertia.. it has survived for one and one quarter centuries for a few very simple reasons: .

metatron

Solid stuff, Farkel

I admit to being obsessed with the goings-on of the WTS
because I'm so curious as to how it will all end up. I've
never studied anything in human behavior as interesting
as this unfolding tragedy.

My current view of what-happens-next is reform by accident.
The old bloodless theocrats will never willingly give up
control of the downtrodden mass of Witnesses. However, the
decline in meeting attendance and general zeal will gradually
awaken many Witnesses from their zombie-like state. The
gerontocrats may attempt a few cosmetic changes but at
this stage anything they do could backfire on them.
People thought Communism could be deliberately reformed, too.

I like the thought from the posts about Japan that zeal
quickly turns into outrage and anger, once you remove the
veil of deception. Nice to see some justice on this planet,
every so often...

metatron

4

WTS 'Hitler Youth' Strategy Won't Work

by metatron in

jw
friends

well, the wizened old theocrats are starting to sense some drift.

and rot growing in congregations in various countries (like.

the dinosaurs, it can take a while for the sensory nerve signals.

metatron

Well, the wizened old theocrats are starting to sense some drift
and rot growing in congregations in various countries (like
the dinosaurs, it can take a while for the sensory nerve signals
to reach the brain). So, what's their response?

Not reform! That's unthinkable to these stiff-necked Sanhedrin
dwellers. How 'bout a kind of 'Hitler Youth' approach? You know,
zealous young fanatics who can seize the reins from local burnt
out elders!

Sounds like the "Ministerial Training School" to me.

Within the last couple years, there was some discussion that the
Borg wanted to do this in (chuckle!) Germany. The recent posts on
Japan suggest they are trying this to curb decline there also.

Well, good luck to them all!

The times I observed this "send in a brother who will straighten
out THAT congregation" phenomena were instructive. The whole thing
usually ended badly - of the three examples I know of locally,
each brother sent in to "set things right" ended up with a wrecked
marriage and divorce. Two out of the three of these spiritual
giants ended up DF'd for adultery - the third moved out and escaped
the growing wrath of the rest of the body (he was a jerk).
So, these three congregations continue as they were.
In neighboring states, I have heard much the same. It's no fun
being the "Lone Ranger" - it's hard enough being an ordinary
elder as it is without "good old boys" hoping you hang yourself.

Reform-wise, maybe the Society will eventually resemble
that saying Europeans have about the U.S.

"America will always do the right thing.... once they've
tried everything else"

metatron

38

troubled [in need of answers]

by zev in

jw
friends

today, i had a long, long talk with my employer.

this person is some one who can seperate work and personal things, so after feeling like i needed to talk to someone, and soon, before i crack up, i went to her and dropped the bomb.

she is not a witness, and because i cannot talk to a witness about what i have learned, for fear of the df'ing thingy, i feel safe in talking to her.

metatron

Zev, I have much the same problem, altho it's getting
better.

First, don't do ANYTHING to get yourself df'd or da'd.
Here's your mantra, dude "I'M DEPRESSED!" - you ARE
depressed, aren't you? Skip meetings and field service
because of depression - it's popular in congregations
and easy! Don't argue about doctrinal points - most
Witnesses have a mindset that is NO different than
"born agains", when you come right down to it.

Getting your wife to adjust to this reality must be
done s-l-o-w-l-y. You gotta chip away at the edges
of the "truth", not club people over the head with
its corruption. It's best to bring up small subjects
that carry an emotional punch - forget abstract doctrine-
go for stuff where people get hurt by the Watchtower.
The elders I served with are such uncaring idiots they
"made the case" for me so my dear wife isn't so blind any more.

metatron

16

The Watchtower Injures Families and Hurts Kids

by metatron in

jw
friends

i've made this point before but it bears repeating.. the watchtower, with its extreme standards, injures.

families and hurts kids.. parents have a responsibility to teach and safeguard.

their kids.

metatron

I've made this point before but it bears repeating.
The Watchtower, with its extreme standards, injures
families and hurts kids.

Parents have a responsibility to teach and safeguard
their kids. Basic parental authority is legitimate
and correct. Watchtower extremism damages and erodes
proper parental authority. How so?

First, because Witness children are taught that hypocrisy
is a correct approach to life. For example, field service
is a "vital, life-saving work". Yet, the reality is
strolling from door to door, talking about the weather,
taking coffee breaks, getting warm in the van, and
above all, ACCOMPLISHING NOTHING. Much the same goes for
meetings and those long painful conventions - endless
repetition, mindless instruction, and no one really
paying attention. Sex? Nope, there's TWO chapters in the
Your Youth book on the dreaded masturbation! Sorry, but you
can't use that thing between your legs til marriage (ten years,
perhaps?). You may as well throw in some corruption and cover-ups
by the elders, that's common these days - and kids may know FAR
MORE about it than you do, believe me!

The parents authority is bound up with being Witnesses.
After a few years of this, Johnny says to himself
"My parents are ****ing crazy! This is stupid!".

and then:

"My parents are religious fanatics and idiots! They
don't know what love is/how to have a good time/
how to live life".
Now, Johnny Witness may end up worse than non-Witness
kids simply because the extremes of Watchtower religion
have caused him to DISGARD PARENTAL AUTHORITY to a
greater degree THAN MANY NON-WITNESS KIDS WOULD.

I know this happens because it happened to me!
I NOW realize what a mistake I made following WT
dogma - and having my kid turn out worse in many respects
than her friends at school, who belonged to ordinary religions.
I also know that Pentecostals and many born again types have
MORE unwed pregnancy and moral problems than the average population,
partly for the reason I just explained.

Second, the guilt and extremes of Witness life cause some kids
to give up inside - a Witness kid might reason that they're doomed
anyway - a Pentecostal kid might say "I'm goin' to hell anyhow!"
The same principle either way - often leading to bad results.

I am trying hard to improve relations with my (grown) child.
Don't make the same mistakes I did and follow Watchtower
dogma to your family's injury. These propagandistic
extremes preached by the Watchtower can lead to painful
outcomes. Moderation and reasonable authority are to be
preferred.

metatron (Oh, for a time machine!)

19

1975: Much ado about nothing?

by dutyfree in

jw
friends

many of the senior witnesses out there, i am sure will remember the spring/summer of 1975 and the amount of excitement that was in the air surrounding the anticipation of what the new year would bring.. i have no recollection of such events as i was still in short trousers and wearing a strange cap, but anyway.... fred franz, the vice president at the time gave many talks to 000's of people about how much everyone was looking forward to 1975 and the wonderful things it would bring... without making an explicit statement as such, but the implications were all there.

these talks actually began in about 1966. the anticipation grew too much for some people and many began to heed mr franz's advice about selling their property to live out the last months on the earth in the pioneer service.

he also encouraged the young people not to pursue a career but rather to be more active in "the truth".

metatron

Yes, we were dumb enough to believe this crap.
I was corrected by a Bethel elder for questioning the
chronology. I reasoned that such an exact date as '75
was impossible because there's no way of knowing how
things were "rounded off" by Bible writers. But of course,
that couldn't be right because "Brother, all that information
is in the Bible for a good reason!". I also understand
that Fred Franz made some personal statements to people
about how their kids would never grow up in this world.

metatron

20

Are JW's starting there own college?

by VeniceIT in

jw
friends

i just recieved this today and thought i'd post it!.

a friend heard (already hearsay, right?

) that the wt society is thinking about or is already in the process of setting up a college.

metatron

Well, I'm sure that if they do put together a college,
total control is their aim ..... but life is filled with
unintended consequences. In particular, such a move would
force them to confront a variety of issues - boring
indoctrination meetings, establishing a clear coherent
theology .... and being forced to deal with young people.
Can you imagine a college booting out students for
fornication? drug use? getting drunk? questioning authority
or doctrine? smoking? loose conduct (1st,2nd, 3rd base)?
How 'bout booting out kids for being irregular in field
service? or missing meetings? The dazed and half senile
leadership has no idea what Witness kids are really like.
(like the old joke about Baptists - they raise hell but
you can't catch 'em at it!).

I hope they do it.
It would really be funny.

metatron (I propose an award for 1st female student to
get pregnant on campus)

8

WTBTS literature for free or else

by Skimmer in

jw
friends

i came across this little tidbit on the united states postal rate commission web site: http://www.prc.gov/documents.asp?docid=26246.

they reference a legal brief ( http://www.prc.gov/docs/26/26246/watchtower-brief.pdf) filed by the wtbts where the brooklyn boys want their postal rates to stay as cheap as possible.

the brief is full of technical details, but there is one sentence of note early on in the document.

metatron

I'm sorry, apparently you're speaking to a mirror.