Posts by Oroborus21

why is the "honor" part unacceptable? honor doesn't mean worship or homage. It just means to esteem or to render high respect. I would think that any couple would want to do that to their partner.

-Eduardo

16

Early Christianity - a cult?

by serendipity in

.

i was wondering if anyone has applied the criteria that identifies a cult to first century christianity, as described in the bible, and historical records from the first three centuries.

have any of you run across a discussion like that while reading books on cults, hopefully by an author that is either supportive of, or tolerant of christianity?.

Oroborus21

there are no "criteria" that is universally accepted or utilized to classify a group as a cult. Perhaps you could ennumerate what you mean and then we could try to make some sort of assessment?

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

10

Wikipedia / New World Translation

by jstalin in

howdy all - i'd like to enlist the help of some of the bible experts on this forum.

the main jehovah's witnesses article on wikipedia has been pretty thoroughly filled with correct and embarassing wts doctrine.

we've been able to get the disfellowshipping and shunning section to stick, as well as mention of the "examination period" of 1914-1919, and general slaughter at armageddon.

Oroborus21

Greetings:

Don't forget that Nicalaou recently started a JW focused Wiki: http://www.watchtowerwiki.org/index.php/Main_Page

Also go to the main wiki page and check out some of the other tools. Lots of great wiki stuff. I don't see it replacing Google. Google will continue to be the premier search and archival site, especially when it finishes its plans to add searcheable texts. But the Wiki tech may become the premiere collaborative forums on the Net.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

27

i need some advise

by bayrhino in

jw
friends

we'll were do i start i've surfed your board and i now at the point of breaking away from the jw organization .

for about 2 years now i've read and done some research and seen all the lies cover up read "crisis if conscience" ray franz and i got to the meeting and see all these people hundreds just going about not being open minded if wt tells these people the world is flat the thats what they'll believe and never question it.

we'll im 28 and been a jw all my life met my wife got married i have 2 wonderfull kids.

Oroborus21

Greetings,

At first I thought it was going to be some advice on how to spell "advice" :-) that's just a joke.

My friend there are many here on this board that have been where you are and still thousands of JWs past and to come who will also stand at the crossroads where you now stand. You are on a journey which will likely lead you entirely out of the Org. Do yourself a favour. Read most of the "best of" posts here and get some more info from all of the wonderful sources that are freely available to you on the Net.

You are absolutely right about the Jerusalem date and the Society is absolutely wrong. There is nothing more you need to know about that.

Personally, I believe that there is hope for the Organization but not without significant changes in the near future. You may decide to remain "in" for your own reasons and it isn't right for anyone else to judge your choice if you do. But if you do, I would encourage you to work in whatever ways you can to improve the Organization and to help bring the real fire of truth to whomever you can, beginning with your family if possible. There are others here more qualified than myself who can guide you on the best approaches for doing that.

best of luck. Keep participating on the forum. You will find a good community here.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

18

Why do dubs think they're smarter than everyone else?

by MsMcDucket in

jw
friends

have you ever noticed this?

i mean it could be about something as simple as washing dishes, but they knew how to do it a better way.

has anyone else had an experience with a witness that just knew it all?

Oroborus21

You know, many of them are "smarter than your average bear boo-boo."

but,

there is certaintly something to the aspect of the JW culture which reinforces the idea that one has "the truth" and knows most of the answers to the big questions in life. If one has the truth and knows most of the answers to the big questions in life it is almost a given that they will develop a mindset of superiority over others.

This combined with other cultural aspects such as the Us. vs. Them and Black & White viewpoints tends to similary reinforce a notion of superiority.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

171

GAGS I HAVE PROUDLY PULLED ON JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES :)

by Nate Merit in

in 1984 (shudder!

) my bud mark smith and i picketed the kingdom hall in ann arbor, michigan.

our signs had a watchtower drawn on them and said 'this religion is a snare and a racket!

Oroborus21

PS: Rebel, I am curious why do you consider JWD to be a "self-help" forum? That seems a little bit odd as a description. I am not saying it isn't entirely accurate, it is just interesting.

Others, including myself, my see this forum as an "informational resource forum" a "religous forum" or even just a simple "discussion forum"

-Eduardo Leaton Jr.

171

GAGS I HAVE PROUDLY PULLED ON JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES :)

by Nate Merit in

in 1984 (shudder!

) my bud mark smith and i picketed the kingdom hall in ann arbor, michigan.

our signs had a watchtower drawn on them and said 'this religion is a snare and a racket!

Oroborus21

Hi Rebel,

thanks for the question. I used to just sign my name Eduardo. For the last year and half I have been trying to develop my sole-practitioner law practice. A while ago, while working with Bruce Margolis, the marijuana lawyer :-), he asked me why I don't advertise that I am a lawyer on my business cards, i.e. not using the esq. or in other ways and that kind of put the thought in my head that maybe it made good business sense to do that, even if it is a bit pedantic.

Frankly, because I don't have a lot of money for advertising or marketing of my practice and most of my clients have been obtained via word of mouth it is just a small noo-obtrusive way of reminding friends, acquaintances and strangers that I am a lawyer just in case they should have a legal question or need some legal help. Thus, I have started signing everything with the Esq. I supposed that i f I was a medical doctor, I might used "doctor" or M.D. also although maybe that is more commonly acceptable even though those guys do often use such a title or their initials for more than mere business reasons.

My education is something that I am proud of, especially given that I started it at a time when as a JW I had to face a lot of opposition to going to college. I am glad that more JWs are getting the opportunity to pursue higher education and a lot of ex-JWs have gone back to college for more education.

Please understand that is not my intention to flout my education or degrees (I have four of them currently incidently) on this forum or elsewhere, but my experience does allow me to add my unique perspective here, and I do very often approach things from a rational/legalistic mindset, though maybe not as much as other lawyers.

I supposed it could be worse. My sister once told me that the lawyers she knew insisted on being called "doctor" which made me roll my eyes and go "oh brother". Yes the J.D. is an earned doctorate degree every bit to be proud of as a Ph.D or other such degrees, but I really consider it the peak of hautiness for lawyers to insist on being addressed as "doctor" - but as I hear some do.

Anyway, enough of the off-topic on this thread.

-Eduardo

10

"Begging the question" versus "begs the question"

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

hey all,.

i've often found myself saying something in a post, then starting the endgame with "this begs the question...".

but i stop myself, because i've heard those that know the "rules" of logic accusing people of the "classic fallacy" of "begging the question".

Oroborus21

Greetings!

TD probably explained it but I will give it a try too.

Today we might not think in these terms but the idea is that if someone begs for something they want us to give it to them for FREE.

The "question" is just another way of saying "the point" or premise.

So to say that something "begs the question" means that the foregoing (something) asked for the concession of the point for free (that is without going through the work of proving it).

Often it is ok to concede a preliminary point or argument but usually if someone raises the objection that it "begs the question" they are saying that the person assumed the point without proof (for free) and that the omission creates a flaw in the overall argument. In other words they just glossed over that part of the entire argument, either out of laziness or because the point couldn't be supported or proved.

Frankly, few people in normal conversation use the phrase in this proper and traditional way.

As you noted, modernly, when someone uses the phrase they are really just setting up a further question or point in their exposition. In this sense their use is rhetorical.

People do this all the time and should really say instead "that leads to the unanswered question" or "that leads to the next question" or something similar but that is an uphill battle.

This second usage is now what is common and is now more or less acceptable.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

171

GAGS I HAVE PROUDLY PULLED ON JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES :)

by Nate Merit in

in 1984 (shudder!

) my bud mark smith and i picketed the kingdom hall in ann arbor, michigan.

our signs had a watchtower drawn on them and said 'this religion is a snare and a racket!

Oroborus21

The problem JB, is that of the slippery slope. First it is "Elders Parking Only" then it is "Witnesses are Wacky" then it is "No Blood Killers" or "Child Molester Refuge" then it is "Die, JW, Die", etc.

The law doesn't address the content of the spraypainting. You can draw Dilbert or the most amazing urban art, or your tagger id or your gang affiliation or any message that you want but it is all the same illegal activity that should simply not be condoned by reasonable adults period. (Actually, federal law and some states's laws do have specific enhancements in punishment and classification for content that is deemed "hateful" or when the vandalism is done to houses of worship.)

Again there are socially appropriate activities that serve as alternatives. Stand out on the sidewalk with a picket sign or take out an advertisement or distribute your own counter-literature.

Anytime someone on the opposing side engages in the kind of activity that Nate boasted about, all it does is let the Society say "See we told you so!"

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.