Posts by Oroborus21

4

The Gospel of Mary Magdalene

by Clam in

.

have any of you read this?.

if you have, what was your opinion please.

Oroborus21

I've read it as it is in Erhman's Lost Scriptures. It is very small, just a fragment really.

It is most interesting in its 4 pages which are apparently missing which contain the detail of a supposed special revelation to Mary but since these are missing what that revelation was is up for speculation.

otherwise the fragment just emphasizes that Mary Magdalene had a special relationship with Jesus.

I don't think there is anything different or remarkable in it compared to the other non-Canonical Gospels.

-Eduardo

40

Sleep trouble - any tips??

by Super_Becka in

jw
friends

argh, i'm a little on the frustrated side right now, so i'm looking for some help.. i'm usually quite good at getting lots of sleep, i'm usually in bed at a decent hour in the night and can usually get between 7 and 9 hours of sleep a night (more on the weekends, of course), but for the last week or so, i've been having some trouble sleeping.

a scattered night of sleeplessness can be expected from time to time, but it's been about 10 days now, that's a little excessive.

i do all of my usual things during the day - classes, homework, chores, cooking, cleaning, errands - and i never nap during the day, i avoid all forms of caffeine after 5pm, and i always go to bed feeling like it's time for me to go to sleep, i'm usually tired at bedtime, but lately, it's been taking me forever to get to sleep.

Oroborus21

Just wanted to add after reading the post that just posted above mine. Don't overlook the quality of your bed. For something that we spend a lot of our life on, no furniture could be more important.

it's worth getting a really good bed.

My dad had a waterbed store so I was raised on waterbeds and I never slept so well as on them. I would like to try out the tempurpedic (sp?) too even though it looks like it is just foam and wouldn't be comfortable.

later,

ed

40

Sleep trouble - any tips??

by Super_Becka in

jw
friends

argh, i'm a little on the frustrated side right now, so i'm looking for some help.. i'm usually quite good at getting lots of sleep, i'm usually in bed at a decent hour in the night and can usually get between 7 and 9 hours of sleep a night (more on the weekends, of course), but for the last week or so, i've been having some trouble sleeping.

a scattered night of sleeplessness can be expected from time to time, but it's been about 10 days now, that's a little excessive.

i do all of my usual things during the day - classes, homework, chores, cooking, cleaning, errands - and i never nap during the day, i avoid all forms of caffeine after 5pm, and i always go to bed feeling like it's time for me to go to sleep, i'm usually tired at bedtime, but lately, it's been taking me forever to get to sleep.

Oroborus21

Super-B,

lots of good advice here, and yeah, I was going to say sex too, but maybe that works better for guys than girls :-)

anyway with the BF away, you can only play alone I guess...

but really, don't stress out, I saw your age and the first thing that I thought of is that you should really just realize that this could be normal.

Teens need and do get a lot of sleep. I think when I was in High School, with the exception of Football Games/practice or Dances, I was conked out by 11 at most. But when I started college it was a whole difrerent story. I started staying up at least until midnight and it hasn't changed since. I am usually up to 1 at least. But now at your age, you might not need as much sleep as before and this may just be your natural self.

In my gerontology class, we discussed that it is normal for us to need less sleep as we get older.

So the first questions are: are you not getting enough sleep, do you have a sleep-deficit and is it really affecting you?

If you aren't sleeping like you used to do a few years ago, but your performance, concentration, and energy are fine during the day then it is probably not somethng for you to worry about. In fact make use of your extra hour or two and just go too bed later without any worries.

But if you are falling asleep, day dreaming too much (because you need your REM/Delta sleep), can't concentrate or feeling fatigued then you know you need more sleep.

And of course, if it is that you feel like you are sleepy but when you lay down to sleep you suddenly cant, then you know you have insomnia.

Try the suggestions alreddy given you, look on the web, etc. you will find something that works for you. Make sure your diet is good and you are getting lots of exercise during the day. By night time you should feel sleepy. Try everything else before resorting the the pharmaceuticals or other remedies.

Also, I wonder is there something that you usually think about when you first try to go to sleep but can't. That may be your mind telling you that you have some unfinished business or that there is a problem there that needs to be resolved.

If all of the above doesn't help and you are having problems during the day because of insomnia, try to take a nap in the afternoon. don't worry about it messing up your night-time schedule. You should always try to listen to your body and if it says I need sleep try and give it to it.

Most people experience insomnia some time. Just think of it as a phase and make the best use of your time not sleeping.

If things get really critical and it continues for a long time and is affecting your daily life, then go see a doctor and maybe a sleep clinic.

-Eduardo

PS: throw a slumber party and keep all your friends up too

37

How will it be after the WTBTS will have fallen ?

by Genesis in

jw
friends

i sometimes imagine that the wt is destroyed (mental masturbation yeah) and all the people left without hope, sanity and joy.

this will be terrible in itself, if the wt falls suddently i fear a mass suicide.i recall myself thinking that id would rather die that not be in "the truth".

it will be a terrible shock for everybody.

Oroborus21

Howdy,

Elsewhere: (i know it may not be your chart) but I wonder how the graph would look against a general population percentage slope. It seems like the increase to 1950 parallels the Baby Boom and of course we all know about the peak leading to 1975.

So the point is that chart may not tell the whole story as accurately as possible. i would like to see just a plot of totals (I am working on some graphs myself) because using % of annual growth also seems incorrect to use.

I mean there are only so many millions of people that are going to convert to being JWs and eventually there will be a point where there is 0% world growth versus % leaving over a long period of time (not just over a year or two).

Also using percentage doesn't quite tell the whole story 1% of a million is much less than 1% growth of 6 million member organization.

-------

turning to the topic of the thread,

It is no secret that I believe that the body of Jehovah's Wtinesses are headed for a downfall within the next 30 years IF some major changes are not made.

I believe that if the changes which I believe will be made are made, that the Religion will thrive and continue to experience even more growth eventually reaching its natural plateau.

As far as the question of the thread, I believe the resulting culture of the religion will resemble something like the present Bible Student groups of today, but with a "Bethel" and possibly a publication, ala Zion's Watch Tower, that serves as unifying tool but without the hierarchical-authoritative-domineering qualities that Bethel or the Org still has. There will be no GB and no need for any publishing empire as the evangelization will continue without the use of such "aids" and via informal word of mouth and by serving as living examples of fine Christians.

There will still be an Adventist hope that is generalized in a patient wait for Christ's Second Coming but the focus will be in developing good Christian qualities in daily living and thus attracting others to emulate us. The days of prophecy and speculation and in rule-making and legalism will be over and persons will live by their individual bible-trained consciences. On the whole the relationship between those "Christian Witnesses" and other faiths and religions will be much more tolerant if not quite accepting.

This is not just a Utopian view of the Organization, I believe that it is one definite possibility.

But if these changes are not made, then in the downfall that will surely result after all of the FDS are dead, I believe a relatively quick exodus over the span of a decade or two at most will lead to a significant drop in membership.

But we must remember that there are still small groups of certain religions which the average reasonable person would scratch there head at so I can easily imagine that after such an exodus over an extended period of time that those calling themselves JWs could easily number anywhere between 1 million to 3 million or more by the year 2200.

So long as there is some form of Adventism within the JW theology, this will always be attractive to a certain number of persons as a faith-paradigm.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

47

Are you in a cult and want out? Be on the Dr. Phil show!

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

are you in a cult and want out?

be on the dr. phil show!.

http://www.drphil.com/plugger/respond/?plugid=9833do you feel you're involved in a cult?

Oroborus21

Howdy,

I happened to see the Dr. Phil show that had Steve Hassan as a guest last year. I think the producers and Dr. Phil are looking for REAL cults like the one featured on that show which was about one of the weird clan-like cults that lived in some compound, in Arizona or Utah or Nevada??? and basically controlled the town, didn't let the kids go to school, married the girls when they were still in puberty off to arranged marriages to really old guys, and were all controlled by a single man.

I think if an ex-JW (or current JW) contacted the show, the producer's would be like "Jehovah's Witnesses?? They were at my door this morning!"

The world knows that some of the Witness beliefs are loony like refusing blood but for the most part, most normal people easily recognize that Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT a cult. Many people know Jehovah's Witnesses as friends, neighbors or co-workers and know that while they are different, they are not in a cult.

I think that if an ex-Witness were to get on the show, and start talking about Disfellowshipping, or the Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine, apostacy, etc. that such things would require a deeper level of discussion to be made understandible why they might be cultic or cult-like for the TV audience and the producers would understand this after doing a little interviewing of potential guests.

That sort of thing doesn't make for good TV.

If someone could do a Dateline-type thing, where you have a victim of sexual abuse, that would talk about how it was covered up, or somethng like that, then it woudl be compelling television and I could see Dr. Phil having a JW or former JW with that situation on the show - or just possibly someone that almost died from rejecting blood transfusion might also make for a good guest.

But otherwise, what most of you guys are talking about, makes for pretty boring television - much too time demanding to get into the issues on a show that is likely to feature several guest-stories plus expert commentary.

-Eduardo

39

The Watchtower's Great Game of "Jenga" and Exposure

by metatron in

jw
friends

jenga is a simple game in which wooden blocks are neatly piled up - and then removed, one by one, until one person ( the person who loses.

the game) makes the pile collapse.. it is tempting to see the organization in the same way - making small but significant "removals" over time.

they pull out food service.

Oroborus21

that's good work Severus, its funny when I saw the first picture I had the same thoughts as Woodsman and scroll down and poof its there. was that done with photoshop or what?

the analogy is not quite perfect though because in Jenga the removed piece is placed back into play by putting it on top of the column, whereas only a couple of JW teachings have been "reinserted" after their removal....

-eduardo

14

JW Religion a Heresy ?

by Think in

many christian believe that doctrines and teachings of jehavah's witnesess are heresy.

they meet strong opposition in many coutries around the globe from people, churches and the goverments.

what is your opinion?

Oroborus21

By the way, I highly recommend your reading:

Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew – Ehrman, Bart D.

Other interesting books that Ehrman has authored are: After the New Testament: A Reader in Early Christianity (1999); The Apostolic Fathers (2003); Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium (2000); Lost Scriptures: Books That Did Not Make It into the New Testament (2003); The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings (2004); The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament (1993)

After reading Lost Christianities and Lost Scriptures, you might have a greater appreciation for the diversity of the Christian faith and an understanding of today's religious tapestry within context of history.

-Eduardo

14

JW Religion a Heresy ?

by Think in

many christian believe that doctrines and teachings of jehavah's witnesess are heresy.

they meet strong opposition in many coutries around the globe from people, churches and the goverments.

what is your opinion?

Oroborus21

this is kind of an odd question. I think you might get all kinds of answers with this one.

The main areas that certain Christian's usually identify, (the biggest areas) are:

Baptism, the Eucharist, the Trinity and some version of the Ransom/Redemption/Atonement doctrine.

But depending on how strictly one wishes to define the qualifying belief or practice, it could be argued that JWs meet all of these with the exception of the Trinity of course.

.....the following bit is excerpted from my website in relation to the whole "Cult" debate..... Members of the Counter-Cult Movement and some others use Orthodoxy as a basis to say whether a group is a cult.* This theological slant is most evident in Christian evangelical literature. I don't believe that orthodoxy or non-orthodoxy is a valid factor to consider for a number of reasons including the fact that to presuppose orthodoxy means simply to acknowledge that there were "winners" in the development of Christianity and to ignore the fact that there were "losers" such as Christian Gnostics and other variations of Christianity that were in competition during the first several centuries of the Church or which exist now within the body of Christian faith. While this conventional theological analysis has appealing features, including that it is simple, direct and intelligible, it has too many flaws to be truly useful. The first flaw is the question of orthodoxy I have just mentioned. Second, this factor fails to acknowledge the variety of beliefs and practices among the innumerable groups labeled as a cult. Third, calling a group a cult because it is unorthodox helps only to merely identify them based upon this definition it does not help us to understand them. Fourth, such a narrow view does not address satisfactorily questions regarding religious pluralism. Nevertheless, despite these inherent flaws, let's briefly examine the major areas which most Christians would insist that another christian religion possess in order for it not to be labeled a cult. These areas are Baptism, the Eucharist, the Trinity and some version of the Ransom/Redemption/Atonement doctrine.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe and practice baptism. They believe that complete immersion is appropriate and that baptism is a "public declaration of one's dedication and trust in Christ's ransom sacrifice" as well as a declaration of repentance from sins. One could hardly criticize Witnesses in this area.

Jehovah's Witnesses practice a limited form of the Eucharist, having about 8,000 of the elite (the anointed) partake of the bread and wine, once a year, during the Memorial of Christ's Death . While some Christians may criticize this practice and assert that partaking in the Eucharist is meant for all Christians, this is a disagreement over doctrine and belief and not reason to call Witnesses a cult.

Jehovah's Witnesses reject the Trinity part and parcel. If some wish to call them a cult on this basis, they are just exhibiting their strong bias and belief in the Trinity doctrine, which Jehovah's Witnesses and some others dispute. There is not much to be said about it.

Finally, Witnesses do of course, believe in the Ransom and the Redemption made possible by the death of Jesus.

Thus taking everything above, it is clear to see, that with the one exception, Jehovah's Witnesses are within the realm of accepted Christianity and in fact when one looks at the various lists of world religions they are included in the segment encompassing Christianity. Again, Christian orthodoxy should not be a basis in determining whether a group is a cult but even if one did make such an examination they would have to give Jehovah's Witnesses the benefit of the doubt unless they were using extremely narrow filters of what would be considered orthodox.

----------

it probably goes without saying that persons who do use orthodoxy as a standard to say what is "Christian" also label other groups like Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, etc. as non-Christian.

-eduardo

37

About Tattoos...

by Mastodon in

somebody was asking me about tattoos and what the biblical rules about them are.

i also remember that a magazine (an awake!?

) mentioned that getting a tattoo is a matter of conscience.

Oroborus21

Just thought I would add, many Jewish people do not get tattoos, some for religious reasons and some because the Nazis tattooed the holocaust victims (in some camps) with their number. But I am not sure if Jewish youth have the same compunctions today. -Eduardo

37

About Tattoos...

by Mastodon in

somebody was asking me about tattoos and what the biblical rules about them are.

i also remember that a magazine (an awake!?

) mentioned that getting a tattoo is a matter of conscience.

Oroborus21

Howdy,

Just to set the record straight. While strictly speaking getting a tattoo is a personal choice (aka conscience matter), the article cited is quite slanted against tattoos and meant to give the clear impression without saying it directly that (true) Christians should not get a tattoo.

The quote (at the beginning of the article) that was highlighted contains a cue word specifically: "Andrew contends ...

The use of the word "contend" in Theocratese is often used to set up that the position following is an incorrect one and will be thereafter shown why it is wrong.

Also note that it is not the Bible or any scripture which says that tattoos are a personal choice, or even the Society, but rather that is what the ("misguided") youth, "Andrew," states. The rest of the article then goes on to lead the reader to the "correct" view of not getting a tattoo in regular JW fashion.

Like virtually all clothing and appearance aspects of the JW culture, these are lagging behing mainstream Society and stuck somewhere in the Knorr Era.

As already noted having a tattoo is pretty much meaningless (in terms of rebellion or a "statement") and is widely prevalent today - even among the local business class - which is the "rule of thumb" that JWs are supposed to emulate as far as formal Service appearance goes.

Personally, I have never seen a tattoo that I thought added any value to the person and I've seen far too many that just seem plain stupid or pretentious. I think the human body is beautiful enough - but not beautiful enough to go unclothed for most :-) that it doesn't need any such further adornment as a tattoo.*

I hope everyone gets a tattoo and piercings and goes crazy with all kinds of body modifications, etc. because maybe then just being clean, with no tats or piercings will become what is cool.

-Eduardo

*Tattoos for ethno-religious reasons are probably the only exception.