"dyed" their hair not died their hair :-)
-ed
Oroborus21
JoinedPosts by Oroborus21
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Oroborus21
Howdy,You may wish to look at this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/107298/1.ashx
You may also want to see my first post in the thread. Some suggested that it is a conscience matter but I believe that that interpretation is incorrect.
The Society uses its usual circumlocution to express its denigration of tattoos without directly stating that tattoos are unfit for "true Christians" since it doesn't want to seem overbearing in such a scripturally vacuous area.
For all intents and purposes tattoos are still socially disapproved among Witnesses and one who got one while an active Witness would probably be subject to the same level of treatment and punishment as one who grew a beard/goatee, died their hair purple, etc. It would probably not be a disfellowshipping situation, however, unless there were other factors involved such as the actual tattoo image being a devil or something like that or other factors involving the particulars of the elders, locale, and persons involved.
-Eduardo
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Thinking about Where's George-type Scenarios
by Oroborus21 inhowdy,.
so i was thinking about phenomena/social cooperatives like wheresgeorge.com, phototag.com, bookcrossing.com etc.. (in case you aren't familiar, these things all essentially allow a person to track things and see where they go and also in part allow people to connect and interact).. anyway i was wondering whether it might be fun to do a jw spin or even just a christian spin to it - if it doesn't exist yet.
i was thinking one possibility might be to use small bibles (maybe even like just gideon bibles and encourage the person to read a chapter and pass their bible on to a stranger.
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Oroborus21
Howdy,
So I was thinking about phenomena/social cooperatives like wheresgeorge.com, phototag.com, bookcrossing.com etc.
(in case you aren't familiar, these things all essentially allow a person to track things and see where they go and also in part allow people to connect and interact).
Anyway I was wondering whether it might be fun to do a JW spin or even just a Christian spin to it - if it doesn't exist yet. I was thinking one possibility might be to use small Bibles (maybe even like just Gideon Bibles and encourage the person to read a chapter and pass their bible on to a stranger. they would log on and indicate what they read, and why or whatever comments they would like to make, etc. where they got it or found it and where they left it, etc. From a Christian perspective that could just be a nice way of spreading the Gospel you know.
So then as far as a JW thing I was wondering whether it would be possible to see how far an Awake! or Watchtower might travel or maybe a publication.
It might be possible to create a chain-letter type of thing to leave a testimony regarding any issue that you like whether it be Blood, Child Abuse, or whatever (but I don't think those kinds of things would be very fun and I am not sure it would go far).
Anyone have any ideas about adding either a pro-JW or anti-JW spin to the whole Where's George-type situation?
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
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Radical Jehovah's Witnesses POSSIBLY responsible for burning down churches?
by sf ina thought just occured to me while reading metatrons recent thread:.
[ http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/107410/1.ashx ].
could possibly, a few radical jws, who adhere to what the wtbts [fds/governingbody] says is "promoting false religion", go as far as destroying said churches in the south right now?
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Oroborus21
Again there is no possibility that JWs would do such a thing - Even some so-called radical element.
and as it turns out today....
it appears to be some stupid drunken college kids who made a mistake and then compounded their problems by trying to avoid responsibility who are the culprits...
-Eduardo
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Film Scenes that got burnt onto your memory
by greendawn inwhat were some film scenes that pleased or horrified you so much that they stayed vivid in your memory for a long time?
the one i always recall is the scene where anthony hopkins (playing as hannibal lector) lobotomised ray liotta (paul krendler) cutting off pieces of his brain and giving them to him to eat.
he also took some of liotta's cooked brain in a plane and gave them to an unsuspecting passenger boy sitting next to him to eat.
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Oroborus21
Phoebe Cates diving into the Swimming Pool and emerging from Fast Times at Ridgmont High
-need I say more.
Eduardo
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I NEED YOUR HELP WITH LAWSUIT AGAINST THE WATCHTOWER
by SHUNNED FATHER ini need your help to continue my lawsuit against the watchtower society and the doctor who the watchtower society arranged for to give my daughter arsenic.
the wts lawyer, hlc members and the doctor deceived bethany and lied to her, convincing her that arsenic would cure her.
bethany was convinced that arsenic could cure her and was curing her.
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Oroborus21
Greetings,
I was wondering about a few things. According to what I read online, Bethany was under the supervision of her doctors and even received 38 blood transfusions against her will fpr a good deal of her battle with Leukemia.
I thought the use of arsenic was strange but then in googling it, it turns out that the use of arsenic has shown promise in treatment. (just one citation)
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9811/07/arsenic.leukemia/
According to another story, Bethany's non-JW lawyer, David Day, investigated whether she was being influenced by JWs or anyone else and concluded that she was making her own medical decisions, as did the court.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/735-.html
It is unfortunate that her case may not move forward as it might help resolve some issues regarding a patient's right to choose their own treatment in Canada.
Coming back to Mr. Hughes lawsuit, I was wondering how the WTS influenced the medical decisions or choice of treatment if Bethany was essentially under court supervision and under the care of her physicians? I have a high esteem for medical professionals and I harbor doubts that they would allow their professional judgment to be swayed by the WTS or Jehovah's Witnesses (which they probably know to have a questionable if not moronic position on blood). If thus her doctors prescribed the arsenic treatment it would seem reasonable that they must have been acting under their own judgment. I am curious to know what evidence Mr. Hughes has to support his claims? Also is the complaint posted online anywhere?
I am sure we all follow this case, Mr. Hughes (and also the other case, Bethany's, if it moves forward at all), with great interest.
-Eduardo
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Getting Busted w/ Love Letters
by OpenFireGlass in.
love letters were the demise for many of the kids in congregations that i attended growing up..... i know i ended up in the library/back room several times for this (hopless romantic/ sagitarius) even put on public reproof for it.
(though i believe it was my dad's idea to have the elders put me on public reproof so that he could have more control over me).
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Oroborus21
Greetings!
One sister complained to my mom about the "hot letters" that were exchanged between me and her daughter. As a teen I probably had 3 or 4 sisters that I was writing to.
The days of real love letters are probably gone and replaced by empty email and expressiveless chatting. Most people today are miserable communicators and the greatest medium ever invented for communication is ironically leading to the demise of the art and beauty of correspondence.
-Eduardo
BTW I say the above as though people of our generations were such great writers, but have you ever read letters from persons who lived in the 19th century or even before.? Like the Ken Burns Civil War series showed from some time back, even common farmers were capable of prose that makes them look like Hemingway compared to our own writing which might be likened no better than Stephen King or Rebecca Brandewyne. So that the next generation seems even worse might only be to continue the trend.
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Reflections on the Funeral
by Oroborus21 inso i just thought i would drop a few lines here that might be of interest.
just to recap, my father died suddenly two weekends ago while engaged in the field service.
my mother has been a witness since 1946 and my father since a few years after.
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Oroborus21
hah, thanks Gumby. Well I have them all now. the full outlines that is..but again in Spanish so I will need to translate them. I am actually not sure who cares but someone might be interested to see them so I might make them available online at some point. I will have to skirt around copyright laws just in case though for the life of me I can't see how the Society would assert copyright on the talk outlines. - ed
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Memorial Celebration -- Bethel Needs to Check Their Calendar
by kalela inhas anyone within bethel happened to check the jewish calendar?
yesterday my stepdaughter was trying to figure out if she had the week off from school.
so i looked up the nyc board of education calendar and was shocked to discover that she won't be off until april 21st - 25th.
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Oroborus21
Hello?
I have in my Calendar that the Memorial is April 12th this year. My store bought calendar also indicates that Passover begins on April 12th after Sundown.
So I am not sure what you guys are fussing about?
All I know is that I have a Seder to get too after the Memorial and I hate when they are on the same day as I usually miss the first round of wine at the Seder since my Jewish friends live in the valley.
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
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Reflections on the Funeral
by Oroborus21 inso i just thought i would drop a few lines here that might be of interest.
just to recap, my father died suddenly two weekends ago while engaged in the field service.
my mother has been a witness since 1946 and my father since a few years after.
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Oroborus21
Greetings,So I just thought I would drop a few lines here that might be of interest.
Just to recap, my father died suddenly two weekends ago while engaged in the field service. My mother has been a witness since 1946 and my father since a few years after. He especially was responsible for bringing into the (truth) countless persons and founding several congregations, most recently the spanish congregation in Guymon Oklahoma. As could be expected a lot of chatter was made about how he died and how this was "possibly the best way he could have gone" (I can easily think of many other better ways :-) but I have a dirty mind.) and how he was a fine example etc.
I did not have to break or even twist any arms (too bad as I was kind of looking forward to getting into some elder's face) as before I even arrived to New Mexico I was already officially designated as a pall bearer. There was a service in the Kingdom Hall but the casket was not taken inside at any time. There was a dinner provided by the local congregation after the burial and I believe that my uncle (Elder) had it moved from his house to the county fairgrounds facility specifically so that I might attend.
My immediate family as I expected displayed no shunning whatsoever and remarkably neither did many Witnesses, however, I am not certain how many of them were aware of my disfellowshipped status.
In sorting through my father's files, I did not locate his Flock book but he may have returned that when he left Oklahoma a few months ago and moved back to New Mexico (and besides I already have electronic versions anyway). However, one interesting find is that I now have his talk outlines (all of them I believe). Unfortunately they are in Spanish so it will be a while before I have them translated. Still I am not sure if Elders and MS's only usually have a handful of talk outlines or if all of them have the entire set. I have never seen the entire set available on the Net or anywhere one may find the complete set of current talk outlines but they are in my possession now :-) If anyone knows of where these might be available on the Net please let me know as it would be helpful for comparison and in the translation. I am sure they will make for interesting reading once I have a chance to deal with them. They also include my father's notations.
I also found an interesting link on my father's IE favorites to theoshare.com . I was unaware of that site and some of you may want to check it out as it has some interesting downloads available.
that's it. Thanks to all who expressed their condolences.
-Eduardo
PS: I forgot to add the "Reflections" part and I will try to keep this brief. It is clear to the family that my father sensed the end of his life drawing near. Last year he experienced a mild heart attack while on a Kingdom Hall build and then in recent months he was in an auto accident that exacerbated his condition. He was winding things down and to an extent seeking to put things in order. He even seemed to soften his attitude towards me somewhat. I have maintained for sometime the posture that I have no business or interest in trying to influence older JWs like my father or mother. I realize that at this stage in their life. As I state on my website regarding such ones: "This is for your own good. I would rather you die with your belief and your faith and hope than to have a hand in taking these from you at the twilight of your life and just when you may need such comforts the most. In this, I differ from what Ray Franz says in his groundbreaking book, Crisis of Conscience, where he writes "there isn't any kindness in encouraging people to live in illusions." (p.337)
I believe that for a few elderly Jehovah's Witnesses, the most loving thing to do is to permit them to live out their lives in quiet ignorance than in the heartbreaking realization that some or even much of what they have dedicated their life to and sacrificed for have been falsehoods. Yes, even lies, malicious or not, that is what they have been. Now, it is probably true that for many, reality must be faced sooner or later and if this occurs very late in life, just when the most comfort is needed, it can have devastating effects. But my weighing of the balances leads me to err on the side of caution when it comes to trying to expose elderly Jehovah's Witnesses to the "truth about the Truth." If such ones come to a point where they wish to leave the Organization, that may be inevitable and unavoidable, but I personally do not want to be responsible for it. In such situations I am guided by my own feelings toward my elderly parents who have spent their lives in dedicated service to Jehovah (the Organization). The fact is that I truly do not know what they would do if they were to realize at this point in their lives that they have been misguided in many of the things they have been taught by the Society. My mom and dad dream of Paradise and have been told all of their lives that it will definitely come in their lifetimes - and that they will never die. Indeed, they are the children of the generation of whom it was told "Millions Now Living Will Never Die."
So, even if it was possible, who am I to rob them of that wonderful hope - or rather this illusion of paradise to be regained which has fueled and fed them so long?
Their belief and faith in what they have learned and been taught has provided them with meaning and structure to their lives and keeps them going from day-to-day. I believe that true Christian kindness mandates that I take a hopeful but neutral stance towards their accepting the truth about the Truth. Of course, as a Christian, I have to make a "defense" of my own faith and understanding; but not to the detriment of others. The first commandment with a promise in the old law was "Honor thy Father and thy Mother, for it will go well with you" and this sometimes requires allowing such ones to continue in their blissful ignorance." Having now laid to rest one parent and facing the possibility of also seeing my elderly mother and even further siblings go before many of the changes that I anticipate taking place within the Organization, I am even more convinced of the rightness of this position. I fear that if my father were alive to Witness the Revolution that is coming, he might have been pained severely and died in doubt and dread as opposed to the hope and optimism with which he seemed to embrace the end.