Posts by Oroborus21

290

JW Children Lie in Custody Cases

by compound complex in

direct and cross-examination questions in child custody cases.

wtb&ts, page 42.

"be careful that they [jw children being questioned] don't get the impression that they are in a demonstration at the circuit assembly, when they would show that the first things in life are service and going to the kingdom hall.

Oroborus21

Honesty,

I understand your unrelenting bias but to be really "honest" you have to admit that there is a difference between advocating that something should be "most" important to one's life and advocating that nothing else is important at all. True, Witnesses believe their faith should be most important, but it is also true that Witnesses are encouraged to be well-rounded and that their lives are spent in a variety of activities, many of them not having anything to do with theocratic activities or Witnesses' faith.

All that the counsel in the brochure is stating is that some Witness youths might have the idea that their faith is on trial or might think it is a situation to highlight their theocratic activity, the way they would do in a part at a convention. (As we know, those parts are meant to focus on a person's theocratic activity but one has to be naive to assume that such persons don't have other interests or don't spend some of their time in recreation or whatever.)

This reminder in the Child Custody brochure is only that, a reminder, to let them know that they should discuss all of their interests and activity, so that a court, the judge, can get a more accurate picture of their daily life. They are not being asked to make up anything or create a false identity. They can represent their life accurately, that is dedicated to being a Christian, but otherwise they are more or less normal in that they have other interests and they spend their time in a variety of activities.

-Eduardo

21

Need Help With Mexico/ Malawi!!

by Anitar in

huge news everyone!

i recently had a breakthrough with my mom.

we were debating last night for several hours, during which time brought up the mexico/malawi situation, which she of course being a faithful and blind witness, knew nothing about.

Oroborus21

Howdy Anitar,

You can find a summary here: http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/sscc27.html

As you recall the fundamental issue is one of "Christian Neutrality." JWs believe or rather believed that a true Christian should not involve themselves with or compromise their neutrality when it comes to matters of politics and also the military. Malawi dealt with political cards and Mexico dealt with papers (the Cartilla) that verified military training. In Malawi, the Witnesses were (instructed) not to buy the cards and in Mexico the Witnesses were (instructed) that they could obtain the cards, usually through bribery.

(This was of course pre-revision of the alternative military service and compulsory civil service viewpoints (doctrine) and pre-revision of the "compulsory voting" viewpoint (doctrine) which probably would change things today.)

"Proving" this to your mom is going to be somewhat difficult. The treatment and situation of the Malawi Witnesses is easy to show from publication excerpts and from Yearbook accounts, so that side of the "scales" is easy enough to prove to your mother.

The difficulty comes in showing how the Witnesses in Mexico were treated in a completely different way and how they were permitted to obtain their cards, perhaps through participation in the (reserves) military training and more often through routine payment (bribery) of government officials.

To my knowledge, no OFFICIAL WT publications have ever even discussed the compulsory reserves military training, much less discussed how JWs either view it or what they do about it. Thus if the ONLY INFO your mom is willing to consider is Official WT literature you may be out of luck.

It is possible to prove the issue to her, if you or her KNOW any Mexican Witnesses who faced the issue and who know of the situation and who will candidly tell your mother about it. That first-hand testimony may be the only way to convince your mother.

You could also possibly TRY writing the Society and asking them NAIVELY about what their directives were to the Mexican brothers at the time and see if you get any contemporary letters that will admit what the policies were, but that is extremely unlikely to produce the evidence.

Otherwise, your mom will have to rely upon the veracity of the copies of the documents that are extent, including what was republished by Ray in CofC, that show what the official position and directives were to the Mexican Witnesses. All these copies though are going to only be available on websites or from sources she would view as questionable.

-Eduardo

PS: while you are on the subject, you might find it good to bring up what I call the "Mexican Question" which basically discusses the perplexing reason why the Witnesses were organized as a cultural association instead of as an official religion for most of the 20th Century. There are a lot of "official" citations that you can provide to show her about that topic.

290

JW Children Lie in Custody Cases

by compound complex in

direct and cross-examination questions in child custody cases.

wtb&ts, page 42.

"be careful that they [jw children being questioned] don't get the impression that they are in a demonstration at the circuit assembly, when they would show that the first things in life are service and going to the kingdom hall.

Oroborus21

this is from the booklet as others already pointed out.

I don't see anything wrong with the directions provided. The idea is to present that JW kids are interested in other things other than spiritual things which is certainly the case. In this way a Court can see that JWs are not religious fanatics, that their faith is important to them, perhaps the primary thng in life, but certainly NOT the only thing in life.

-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

11

Jury Duty

by sonnyboy in

jw
friends

what is the wbts policy on jury duty?

are they allowed to participate?.

i've been called to go on january 2nd, to be active throughout the entire month of january, but i can't afford to be off work for only $15 a day.

Oroborus21

not sure if it is the "latest" position but the position used to be that jury duty is ok itself but if the case involved capital punishment and the jury would be expected to impose a sentence that possibly included death, that would be something that a Christian would have to make a "matter of conscience" (aka Society: "we'd really like to say don't do it but won't go so far, you get what we mean").

Interestingly, when the Alternative Military Service info came out mid-90s that emphasized doing our civic duty, I pointed out at the WT Study that the info applied to Jury Duty as the form of "compulsory civil service" that exists in the U.S. That went over like a lead balloon.

Anyway, just wondering, many areas have the "call in" system which allows you to keep working at your regular job. Also, you might not be able to get out of the 10 days or whatever is mandatory but avoiding getting seated on a jury is extremely easy. A person has to be a complete moron not to be able to get out of actually being seated during the Voir Dire process. All you have to do is make some sort of comments about your beliefs or position on the issues of the case that lean strongly one way or the other and you will get dismissed.

13

6000 pages!

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

that's kinda cool.

Oroborus21

I wonder. who here can claim that they have read each and every one? anyone?

2

Nintendo Wii

by Oroborus21 in

jw
friends

the funniest thing i have heard lately is how all these people have flung their nwii game controllers and smashed their televisions when it slipped out of their hands.. eduardo.

of the thinkng of getting an xbox 360 class.

Oroborus21

The funniest thing I have heard lately is how all these people have flung their NWii game controllers and smashed their Televisions when it slipped out of their hands.

Eduardo

of the thinkng of getting an XBox 360 Class

11

What about the blood issue?

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

what about the blood issue?

sooner or later a person has to face his or her demons.

regarding certain jehovah's witness doctrine.

Oroborus21

howdy,

(just an aside, HIV doesn't "blossom" into AIDS and technically speaking, AIDS is not a disease as many people commonly say. AIDS is a medically defined category, a syndrome, which by definition entails the presence of a number of criteria including HIV.)

anyway, if one makes the discussion about medicine or health the debate is over. the efficaciousness of a blood transfusion far outweighs the very minute risk of contracting some blood borne disease or HIV.

-eduardo

14

A 'pair' of socks, OK. But why a 'pair' of pants?

by Gregor in

jw
friends

wonder why certain garments are referred to in the plural, pants, underwear, trousers?

why not a pair of shirts?

"i put on a fresh pair of shirts this morning" or why not say "i spilled coffee on my pant and i need to change it".

Oroborus21

Oh Sherry, don't start with the Ol' Why are there Interstate Highways in Hawaii?-list

14

A 'pair' of socks, OK. But why a 'pair' of pants?

by Gregor in

jw
friends

wonder why certain garments are referred to in the plural, pants, underwear, trousers?

why not a pair of shirts?

"i put on a fresh pair of shirts this morning" or why not say "i spilled coffee on my pant and i need to change it".

Oroborus21

its not complicated. the "pants" (short for pantaloons) refers to the legging portion of a long garment. These were not always attached as they are now in one piece but were like stockings or socks separate, hence a pair of them make a complete set. the usage continued even after the leg portions became permantent parts of the uniform garment. - eduardo

2

ISG report, anyone else read it?

by Oroborus21 in

jw
friends

been reading the iraq study group report.

i was wondering if anyone else has read it and has thoughts?

the assessment section is particularly interesting.. -eduardo.

Oroborus21

been reading the Iraq Study Group report. I was wondering if anyone else has read it and has thoughts? The assessment section is particularly interesting.

-eduardo