Posts by Oroborus21

15

Whatever became of Rose Ball?

by moomanchu in

where did she live?

did she have a family?

did she ever speak out for or against the witnesses?.

Oroborus21

Actually the answer about more info about Sophie Hassan might be found in diligent search of records of the Kings County Assylum

http://www.lioddities.com/Asylums/Kings_Park/history.htm

If anyone in NY could do this and find a record of her admittance and discharge or whether she was discharged at all that would be a nice find.

Census and marital records in the area might reveal something too.

-Eduardo

PS: It was probably constructed in the 1890s as some of the older buildings are listed from that period. No wards are listed from that period which suggests that the original ward may have been torn down. Or maybe as you suggest, Harrison got it wrong and the period is really during the early Rutherford period but the situation seems more like something that would happen to Russell.

Here is a better article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_Park_Psychiatric_Center PPS: the name change from Kings County Asylum as referred to by Harrison to King Park State Hospital in 1895 when the state took over suggests that this affair with Sophie Hassan occurred prior to 1895 and thus does place it squarely in Russell's period and would seem to fit very well the culture of that time and with the young Russell's appeal to such groupies.

15

Whatever became of Rose Ball?

by moomanchu in

where did she live?

did she have a family?

did she ever speak out for or against the witnesses?.

Oroborus21

right Nathan,

that was the info I got from Visions. Does anyone know anything more and actually i have never seen any corroboration of BGH respecting this info. I think she, Hassan, is a much more interesting figure than Rose Ball.

-Eduardo

15

Whatever became of Rose Ball?

by moomanchu in

where did she live?

did she have a family?

did she ever speak out for or against the witnesses?.

Oroborus21

I believe the Sophie Hassan info came from Visions of Glory but I will have to double-check that.

-Eduardo

43

BIG LIE IN THE BIBLE!

by Gill in

god makes the sun shine and the rain fall on the righteous and the unrighteous!.

that's what it says in the bible, (paraphrased to more or less).

matthew 5 :45. so, that being the case, why does he not make it rain in drought stricken areas?.

Oroborus21

justsomedude,

you have two previous posts in this thread prior to the last.

your first post, you make a good point about what is and what will be continuing debate about the Bible. You further make a good point about mythology - but seem to overlook the fundamental precept and power of myth which is that it is meant to organize human thought and reflects something about humanity. thus even if we assume that the Book of Matthew and these verses are mere myth/folklore/literature, that is uninspired or without any divine origin, you should acknowlege that there may be a moral lesson intended within the text.

As for your reference to "harsh" I assume that goes to my "use your brain" closing which was not meant so much as a snide remark but rather as imperative to Gill to use some common sense and basic literacy since it is patently obvious that he is/was committing several errors. Further I think that his use of an all cap "BIG LIE IN THE BIBLE" attitude justified a little jibe but it was not meant to be personally insulting.

your second post, merely asks whether Jesus should be expected to be factually accurate.

My point in response is that Jesus was factually accurate in that as common observation shows when it rains upon people, it rains upon them without respect to their righteousness or moral standing.

Jesus' statement is not any broader than that and is not meant to be an exposition about the water cycle or scientific in any way. (That is Gill's basic error to read into it something which it is not.)

As for your last comment, (giving the believing view) certainly Jesus as the one through whom God created the universe and being divine has both superhuman knowledge and superior insight into the physical universe. If it had been his intention, he could have easily revealed these things to mankind. That was not his stated purpose and so Jesus, nor does any of the Bible, intend itself to be a book of science or a scientific explanation; although believers hold that where science or the realities of the physical universe intersect with the scriptures, there is no real disharmony.

-Eduardo

15

Whatever became of Rose Ball?

by moomanchu in

where did she live?

did she have a family?

did she ever speak out for or against the witnesses?.

Oroborus21

There is no evidence that Rose Ball was ever a director of the Society. Let's see your proof. I have researched it, but if you have actual evidence or sources, I would eager to see them.

15

Whatever became of Rose Ball?

by moomanchu in

where did she live?

did she have a family?

did she ever speak out for or against the witnesses?.

Oroborus21

Leolaia,

Do you know of anything further on Sophie Hassan?

This is what I have as my entry for her:

Hassan, Sophie

Perhaps the first Russell "groupie," her infatuation with him led her on more than one occasion, to crouch humbly in the vestibule of the Pastor's headquarters in Brooklyn, always removing her shoes so as not to besmirch the ground upon which Russell-her "bridegroom"-had trodden. Evidently, Russell grew weary of her attentions and had police take the sixteen-year-old away to Kings Park Asylum for observation. Possibly in reference to Ms. Hassan, Russell later mused that "fallen angels" have a nasty habit of materializing on earth, assuming the form of a living person, and committing "licentious acts." (See The Watch Tower, January 1, 1911)

15

Whatever became of Rose Ball?

by moomanchu in

where did she live?

did she have a family?

did she ever speak out for or against the witnesses?.

Oroborus21

Leolaia, you took my comments....just a question for you. I have seen E.C. Henninges name sometimes spelled Hennings, without the E. do you think this is just a typo and that Henniges is the correct spelling.

-Eduardo

41

John Chapter 1

by mavie in

i am wondering how those who believe jesus is the almighty lord god reconcile the following passages in chapter 1.

john 1:1 - ..."the word was god.

john 1:14 - "and the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the father,) full of grace and truth.

Oroborus21

I will write this again, because I just love making this point....

If anyone wants to believe that God the Son, Jesus, or any part of Almighty God, sat down beside the road during one of his many travels, or while camping out near the lake, and took a big smelly stinking dump....then you go ahead and try to picture that. I am certain that it happened now and then.

I am also certain that Jesus farted, burped, wiped his ass, pissed against the tree, ate fish and bread, had a cup of wine now and again, got an erection and even had seminal emissions.

As for me, I can't picture God or any part of a Godhead in any such pedestrian way.

While Jesus was human and taking his dump, God was in his spiritual realm sitting on his spiritual throne in all his majesty and Glory.

-Eduardo

43

BIG LIE IN THE BIBLE!

by Gill in

god makes the sun shine and the rain fall on the righteous and the unrighteous!.

that's what it says in the bible, (paraphrased to more or less).

matthew 5 :45. so, that being the case, why does he not make it rain in drought stricken areas?.

Oroborus21

Narkissos,

you misunderstand the moral lesson in the main, which is to love "evil persons" thus it is a lesson in "undeserved kindness" aka Grace. True, perfect Justice would imply that God should make the righteous man's field watered and curtain off his unrighteous' neighbor's from the rainfall but he does not. (or rather it does not occur that way in the physical world, normally of course, which Jesus and the audience observe.)

Thus Jesus implies that God shows kindness or love to the unrighteous and therefore implores us, in imitation of the Father, to do the same.

Whether one is a believer or not, whether one sees the words as inspired or not, surely the lesson is simple enough and valuable to all.

As for comparing it to Job's verses, simply because rain is mentioned there, it doesn't detract from the verses in Matthew nor contribute to some global understanding of "rain" as a whole. (Rain certaintly wasn't a blessing for everyone in the Noah story.) One has to be certain that the "reference" is meant to be harmonized when trying to make an inter-scriptural evaluation and not merely look up in a concordance all instances of the same word in the belief that everywhere the Bible uses the same word it is the intention (of the writers, compilers or God) to harmonize these instances.

-Eduardo

43

BIG LIE IN THE BIBLE!

by Gill in

god makes the sun shine and the rain fall on the righteous and the unrighteous!.

that's what it says in the bible, (paraphrased to more or less).

matthew 5 :45. so, that being the case, why does he not make it rain in drought stricken areas?.

Oroborus21

justsomedude,

ok I can't believe I am actually going to take time to explain this or that it is necessary....

the statement is one of observation that is namely when the rain pours in any given area upon a population, there are in the speaker's judgment (and yes it is Jesus) in that population both righteous and unrighteous, and thus it rains to their equal benefit (or not actually). The point being made is that generally rain does not just shower upon the field of the righteous man while leaving his next door neighbour's bone dry because he happens to be unrighteous.

This is a simple, folksy and easy to understand illustration which is a metaphor for God's love/righteousness/fairness, etc.

This statement is obviously not meant to convey ANYTHING about climate, drought, where rain does and doesn't fall in some larger sense than the one which I have described.

Further this statement is not one of science which might describe the actual processes involved of evaporation, condensation and precipitation.

Contrary to a very stupid but catchy Country Song, God does not have his angels "pour out the rain" and of course Jesus knew that. Like most believers, Jesus and the audience understand that God, as the Creator, is to be recognized for such blessings as beneficial rain.

-Eduardo