Britain is mostly atheist, but the Watchtower society knows the law - that's why they don't actually keep much in the way of records. It's very hard, somewhat impossible, to prove anything - about the only evidence is eye-witnesses, who are likely loyal JWs.
ekruks
JoinedPosts by ekruks
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46
Lawyers: Can a Jehovah's Witness sue the Watchtower Society for Civil Rights violations?
by Balaamsass ini have been on boards and run businesses, and been reminded by more than one cpa and attorney to cross ts and dot i s regarding corporate requirements or we would become liable to lawsuits.. therefore, my questions to any attorneys and cpas, and the keen minds on this board, are the following;.
i have been reading old threads on this site about watchtower society irregularities regarding tax filings with state and federal agencies.
evidently, a number of filings for different years were identical (unlikely if not impossible) or missing.
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58
Home schooled witness kids
by stillin insorry if i'm stepping on any toes here, but i haven't seen anything positive about home-schooling...at all.
the notion is that parents are taking advantage of the formative years to inculcate more worthwhile values while protecting their kids from worldly influences.
they end up with lazy, socially inept, illiterate duds who haven't a clue.
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ekruks
Homeschooling is not necessarily worse. Schools are full of crime, drugs, etc., lots of bullying, but the interaction with other people can teach social skills that you won't get sat at home with books. As for the actual academic skills, it depends on the parents, though they can never be an 100% effective teacher in any subject, but some schools have poor teaching. Personally, best the children go to school, and parents spend time on their homework.
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The Two Witness Rule breeds Predators.
by quellycatface ini have a friend who works in a correctional facility for sex offenders.. there is a brother who is serving a sentence for having sexual relations with a number of under age girls.. due to the "the witness rule" this man has not been disfellowshipped.
his congregation are still supporting him and he receives visits from the prison assigned elder.. i cannot contain my anger.. this is surely breeding predators.. i have probably mentioned this on here before but i wanted to post in this area for emphasis.. .
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ekruks
Criminal and civil law are distinct. For a civil case, where you are dealing with tort, then the judge may opt for whichever side presents the most convincing case, but with a criminal case, the prosecution must with certainty, with no doubt whatsoever, prove the defendant is guilty.
There is absolutely a legal right to be a Jehovah's Witness - it's called "freedom of religion" - in fact, in the USA, it's enshrined in your constitution, and why the FDS won cases against it, such as the flag salute issue. As for becoming a ministerial servant, if someone met the qualifications and is ignored or removed, then that is discrimination, and such is highly illegal. You seem to think the law must state everything in writing, when actually it is based on principles, most arising from previous cases. You could actually sue for damages and could win simply on the basis of stress, in fact, this would be far easier in the USA than Europe.
It is from that viewpoint, of the organisation not being allowed to discriminate, and also that it's not allowed to slander, that it cannot just strike ministerials servants or elders off or start disfellowshipping without reason (yes, I know it does). If a person was accused of being a paedophile without evidence, they could sue the FDS.
I don't know what you mean by children are not exposed to adults material, because sex is all over day time TV, even innuendo in kids programmes. I would not think children lie of these horrific crimes, but the courts must demand evidence, and so FDS can not be said to be promoting child abuse if it likewise demands two witnesses. Increased cooperation with the police, allowance of DNA testing would be useful, and not simply relying on the spirit to reveal sin.The real tragedy is how corrupt and poorly trained bodies of elders are, so mess these cases up or just say stupid things like "but he's a lovely brother" (though college boards, companies etc. act similar) and that the Bible (yes, the Bible) doesn't allow cooperation with the authorities but reliance on the spirit to reveal matters. Repentence of sin is in the Christian or Islamic mindset more important than punishment for crime - crime is that of the world, sin is the holy teaching. However, the FDS lack power to detain the pervert from the community, to imprison, and even the state often fails such.
Should you be questioning the JWs or questioning the inspiration of the Bible itself? Must you have it to lean on to get through life, jumping from religion to religion, ever vulnerable for abuse by the next religious movement coming along. I know life is hard, but we need to find something better, and not drink, drugs, etc. is not the answer. -
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The Two Witness Rule breeds Predators.
by quellycatface ini have a friend who works in a correctional facility for sex offenders.. there is a brother who is serving a sentence for having sexual relations with a number of under age girls.. due to the "the witness rule" this man has not been disfellowshipped.
his congregation are still supporting him and he receives visits from the prison assigned elder.. i cannot contain my anger.. this is surely breeding predators.. i have probably mentioned this on here before but i wanted to post in this area for emphasis.. .
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ekruks
We may have reasons to be displeased with the organisation, but let us not suggest that they are the only organisation that has such a prelevance of child rape (I know the phrase is painful, so the word 'abuse' is used, but this actually softens how horrific a crime it is). Any organisation runs such a risk, and most religions, and many organisations have had such a problem. In the UK, it's been discovered that top figures in the BBC during the 1970s were paedophiles, and the great respect show for older persons in that time, especially in religion, only gave power to be abused - wherever there is any form of power, human nature as it is, people will abuse power.
As for the claims that the FDS differ from the state law, that is not true. The mention here of "reasonable doubt" only applies to suing people for damages, i.e. money for the pain caused, and it does not apply for disciplinary action, such as imprisonment (or disfellowshipping), which requires beyond reasonable doubt, but absolute certainty. The law clearly states innocent until proven guilty, otherwise, people could be accusing innocent persons of crimes. It's very important that criminals are restrained by the law, but it's also important the state cannot punish an innocent person. It is usual for the court to demand evidence, of which DNA is most convincing, otherwise, two witnesses - this is not unique to JWs or the Bibles but the law. The JWs could be sued if they started disfellowshipping on the basis of one witness, because without a second, it would legally be defamation of character. The actual real tragedy is that the FDS, in actually properly following scripture and keeping seperate from the world and looking for the holy spirit to reveal matters, have not fully co-operated with the police, viewing Jehovah's law and protection as superior. However, the question should be, can one be so loyal to the Bible, knowing what it contains? What people here throw anger at the JWs for following is actually scripture!It is also tragic that judicial committees, and elders, in general, not just in such cases, handle matters poorly, due to a lack of training, arrogance due to feeling they are under the power of the holy spirit, reliance on the spirit to guide allowing gut feelings, and intense office politics that results when an organisation is so closed, so self-appointing, free from inspection, and without qualifications. It's incredible that it's not harmed more people!
All your bitter violent anger towards these mentally-disturbed individuals is not in line with scripture, where a repentent child molestor was allowed back into the first century congregation. Personally, I would have any such person detained in a mental institute for life, as they are a clear danger to children, but your vicious anger doesn't show any humanity - I would not conclude these people are simply selfish, but must have some mental defect in the first place to want to do such to a child. Americans are so into revenge and killing, but your crime rate remains high - maybe you should focus your attention to finding out why people end up so disturbed and stopping it from occuring.
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Inactive and the RBC
by ekruks inok, i'm inactive..... as for qualification for the rbc, what are the bare minimum requirements.. is it merely to be active, i.e.
go on the ministry one hour a month (or hand in a report saying that?
), or to be in "good standing" does one have to be regular at enduring (all?
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ekruks
Jesus would be disfellowshipped the second he met the organisation!
I want to get involved with a RBC team on weekends, because it would let me improve some electrical skills I use for work - they are always short of good people in some teams. I just don't want to have to do say 10 hours ministry a month and about 4 hours in meetings - no time for that; with trying to get back lost education with college studies and trying to pay rent. That said, I left the town, so bros and sis in old cong think I am active and pioneering - lol probably still officially on the RBC but I don't think I can just write to them lol, need elders to send approval
I know I'm not the only one here who feels that pioneering and window cleaning doesn't give one strong training for employment. I now spend former pioneer hours studying at local college, which is going ok, paying bills by doing electrical contracts when I can get them, but like with pioneering, finding part-time work to pay rent is not easy - stressful times, worrying this will all just fall apart and the local JWs point and say they were right, but they are at the moment upset that I am better off than the pioneer days.Think RBC would be good opportunity outside of workplace to practise skills - it's generally very laidback, so not like anyone is going to fire me if I get something wrong - learn tips from others.
The brothers tell me it's because I need to draw closer to Jehovah, but when pioneering, some days I ate two meals, didn't use heating in winter, wore clothes that were worn out, crazy days - I was better off than many unfortunate people in Asia, etc., but Matt 6:33 didn't seem to work for me. -
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Inactive and the RBC
by ekruks inok, i'm inactive..... as for qualification for the rbc, what are the bare minimum requirements.. is it merely to be active, i.e.
go on the ministry one hour a month (or hand in a report saying that?
), or to be in "good standing" does one have to be regular at enduring (all?
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ekruks
Ok, I'm inactive..... as for qualification for the RBC, what are the bare minimum requirements.
Is it merely to be active, i.e. go on the ministry one hour a month (or hand in a report saying that?), or to be in "good standing" does one have to be regular at enduring (all?) the meetings? How long since one was inactive? Is it like disfellowshipping where it takes decades to get over it or is it a month or so?
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24 hour field service marathon ??
by gingerbread infield service for up to twenty-four hours non-stop.... it's a bit of a fad in our area with pioneers - the twenty somethings especially.
we've heard from other family members and a jw friend that it's a thing in their part of the country as well.. it sounds like a group decides on a day and then piles into a van or suv to 'work' the territory - 12, 18 and even 24 hours.. anyone else hearing of this?.
ginger.
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ekruks
That is all about hours on a bit of paper and not about helping people - pointless
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A really great video on the original pronunciation of Shakespeare (only about 10 1/2 min.)
by MeanMrMustard inthis is a really great video about how the original pronunciation of a language, during the time a play was written and performed, can affect the feeling and meaning.
i thought it was interesting.
enjoy!.
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ekruks
This is fascinating - Americans discussing British accents. Regarding the video from the Open Uni - that Original Pronunciation accent was how people used to speak, and older people in rural areas (from days before television) have an accent that is not too dissmilar. If you head up to the North of England, you will find people sound more this way.
The Received Pronunciation is more associated with the South of England, particularly near London and anywhere within about 2 hours distance by car/train - this is where most of the wealthy live, and the "proper" accents are associated the schools such as Eaton and universities such as Cambridge and Oxford (think of USA's Harvard and Yale), graduates of which dominate politics, and business. Received Pronunciation is about speaking with accuracy.
However, note that most people, even in the South of England, do not speak with Received Pronunciation. I notice that Hollywood often gets this wrong, where it mixes up British accents in films. Despite much reform Britain is still a very class driven society, with different sectors of society having very different accents.
There is an accent associated with school dropouts, i.e. think of AliG who is actually mocking these lazy troublemakers
There is the accent of the working class person, and there is MUCH regional variation, where people from one end of England sound as if they come from a different part of country to other end. It will differ even more so if you go to Ireland (Dara O'Brien), Wales (Rob Brydon) or Scotland (Sean Connery), where it's influenced by traditional languages - if they are from a rural area, this will sound more like Original Prounciation of Shakespeare's day, but if they live in a city, it will sound more like that of TV programmes exported from the USA to Britain.
Phil Davis has a working class accent.
Simon Pegg sounds like an average Londonner, but American films often portray the Cockney accent which is particular to a certain area of London and people with a low education:
The middle class accent is particulary associated with London surburbia such as Surrey. The middle class is usually divided into upper and lower, where the upper has an accent more inline with RP, likely having attended an Oxbridge university. Rupert Penry Jones, Hugh Grant, Bill Nighy, Hugh Laurie, Benedict Cumbernatch, Stephen Fry, or Paul Bettany - they sound as if they went to a top university, come from a well-bred family with a lot of money, so would get preference in career progression (this is why Welsh people such as Timothy Dalton and Anthony Hopkins adopt this accentand not a Welsh accent).
If someone is very wealthy, i.e. the royalty, the middle class accent will be very emphasized, they speak "hot potato". Kate Middleton has a very upper class accent, speaks very well, far far better than Prince William who sounds more an average upper middle class lad.
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What Is The "Typical" Elder In The Organization Like Now?
by minimus inwhen i was an elder, most of the elders were pretty independent 40 to 80 year olds.
they had no issue speaking up to the circuit overseer.
i wonder what the average elder is like now.
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ekruks
There seems to be a common line of thought here that age matters - old elders are best. I would strongly disagree. With today's advances in modern medicine, people are living far longer than in Bible times, most people live longer than 60 or 70 years old.
People struggle with illnesses such as dementia, and I have seen a number of elders with early signs of such, or in other ways struggling with poor health, who stubbornly clung to key congregation positions. They hold down the young brothers, because it's all they have got for their long miserable life of no achievement, with no career, perhaps even no family - if they let someone in their late 20s, even 30s, or 40s be an elder, it means over the last 40 years until they became 80 years of age, they made no progress. Being an elder has to put on some pedastal for "older men".
The focus should be on people's love of Jehovah, knowledge of scripture, and maturity - this is not something an age can be set on; in fact many young men could do as well, or just as badly, as many an older elder. It's disgusting how many an old man rides on into eldership due to his age alone but barely knows the Bible.
HOWEVER, a typical an elder in the organisation today is a expert in Office Politics.
I may have once dreamed to become an elder, even a missioanry, but I quickly realised it's not like Timothy working with the apostle Paul as claimed; but it's about who you know, if your father is an elder, if you lick the right backside, etc.. It's not a spiritual family of people helping each other.
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Private meetings banned??
by franticfran ini have just spoken to a brother who is part of a group of single brothers and sisters who meet together once a week to discuss bible topics and he has been told by and elder that the organisation "banned" these private meetings years ago.
i told him i remember that article but he is adamant that the society would never do that (!
) now i am fairly sure i remember that article whether it was in a km or one of the mags i cant recall but i am sure i remember them saying we needed nothing more than the food that the slave class provided (another means to control us),does anyone have the details of that article because i have said i will find it and let him have it.
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ekruks
Yes, that's the article - we are to follow the Watchtower, not the Bible!!