Posts by Morgaine

34

The Bible: It does'nt make sense

by Leander in

jw
friends

as i was exercising this morning i was thinking about my decision to step down as a ministerial servant and also to stop attending religious functions of any kind.

i've often felt that jws were somewhat flawed in their interpertation of the scriptures, but this morning it kind of hit me all at once that no 2 religions are going to have the exact same beliefs even though both religions might be using the same translation of the bible.

this disturbing fact raises quite a few thought provoking questions:.

Morgaine

The questions are interesting ones for sure. To add in a few ideas with your explorations on the subject, I have recently found some links in my own searches that you may like... http://www.ffrf.org/bybarker.html (cool site - interesting thoughts here) http://www.religioustolerance.org/ (this site is good for getting a broad overview of all religons and thier major doctrines ... also has links for in depth reading within the articles as well.) http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/ http://www.ffrf.org M.

Edited by - morgaine on 8 July 2002 10:56:28

12

Latest WT Encourages You to Question Your Religion

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

as long as your not a jw already that is!!!!!!.

that being said the august 15, 2002 edition of the watchtower carries the cover article "to whom should you be loyal?

" which contains several experiences of ones who gave up their old religion and despite much opposition became jehovah's witnesses.

Morgaine

Spin doctors ... =/

m.

53

Secret WTS Social Agenda

by spaz in

jw
friends

this is a both a departure from the conventional paleo-hellenic concepts of logic to a primitive yet equally tenable principle of,'actions speaking louder than words', and a synopsis.. the wts is but one of many groups which are devoted to the disintergration of the traditional or biblical family structure, via nefarious means, as part of a greater plan that envisions a two-class new world order resembling feudalism.. .

the philosophic means to achieve this state is non-biblical.

the wts repudiates the christian principle of "loving your neighbour as yourself " by adopting an altruistic approach which demands to 'love your neighbour above yourself ".

Morgaine

nt

Edited by - morgaine on 26 June 2002 7:38:54

53

Secret WTS Social Agenda

by spaz in

jw
friends

this is a both a departure from the conventional paleo-hellenic concepts of logic to a primitive yet equally tenable principle of,'actions speaking louder than words', and a synopsis.. the wts is but one of many groups which are devoted to the disintergration of the traditional or biblical family structure, via nefarious means, as part of a greater plan that envisions a two-class new world order resembling feudalism.. .

the philosophic means to achieve this state is non-biblical.

the wts repudiates the christian principle of "loving your neighbour as yourself " by adopting an altruistic approach which demands to 'love your neighbour above yourself ".

Morgaine

Wow. Im going to take a huge risk with this.I'm going to be rather bold and I am not certainly as eloquent as you, sir. However, I will pose a few questions for you maybe to flesh out for us or to even privately consider yourself Forgive me where I lack punctuation and where I get redundant because its very late for me here...And well, you are religously based ( i have seen this a bit belatedly) but i have not the time to rewrite this but...perhaps you can still consider some of these.

I think what your describing is not something unique to the JW or the WTS . Certainly, Machiavellis and Sun-Tzu alike knew the benefit in manipulating a belief system (you touched on this). But this does not mean that all changes in a belief system are unhealthy and the product of larger motives". Is a certain degree of evolution natural? What are your reasons for believing in a segregated humankind and feeling that patriarchy is the obvious only alternative? Is this because you have always believed it? Do you feel this must be true simply because to your knowledge it always has been? Have you also asked that perhaps men have globally decided to wish to be less the provider - Women can easily in this day and age be providers and are even more adept( in some cases) but what if no loss of male power has really occurred just a change where women actually do more work and men are becoming more the "Male lion in the pride" ?Whether you approach this platform from hunters and gatherers or from creationism - you can not over look the power of industrialization and certain evolutionary qualities like medicine and machines(and your not). Are these products of evil or simply of progress? Can this happen without ulterior motives ? Have you also over looked that while women wear short hair and long hair that the preferred female has extreemly large breasts the size of a nursing female? Have you considered that while men are removing bodily hair that women have been removing bodily hair for centuries and this is western and unnatural? have you over looked that some men may find a beard and body hair too hot to wear and it might be preference? Is preference allowable in partriarchy? Have you asked yourself if there are any ways that a level of unity could be reached from the chaos of evident change?Change being a part of the human experience always involves a bit of chaos in any dilima Have you considered that we are in the chaos of change thus maybe some of the distortion that you are seeing socially - certainly the world is more unitied globally - is the new world order truly orwellian is it possible .. and if it is orwellian - how does role reversal become a nessecary and main element of any signifigance? . Are you sure your not approaching your supposition from entirely too narrow of a view point with an answer already in mind ? and Have you asked yourself this "if indeed Matriarchy has never existed (subjective not empirical)- does that mean it is invalid or harmful? " have you also considered that an equality or more of a unity might be reached (feminism being more for the rights of women but not the takeover of imo) that better relationships and understanding might be gained from dropping such stigmas as "girls are over emotional and boys don't cry"? That we might actually be a bit better rounded as human beings? Have you asked your self whether or not your observation on men and women is based solely on stereotype that is a left over unchallenged belief from your upbringing? Is it possible to judge and live purely on personality difference and not gender differences? Have you consulted/ conducted studies on liberal versus purely patriarchal couples ? have you not found success in the equal amount of respect brought to a more liberal union? Are men incapable of nurturing? What is the true harm of role-reversal should this occur ? How does it encourage homosexuality and if you feel it does then you must be approaching it from a religious bias because it is a. genetic or b. a choice and either way you view it your obvious disdain suggests an intolerance. Are you aware of the fact that strictly religious households with patriarchal architecture has been proven to be more prone to child molestation than any other structure? How do you account for this? How do you also account for males being the more likely of the sexes to commit such acts of agression against children in the patriarchal structure? Are you then suggesting that sex crimes against children did not always exist? What is your reasoning for this? Have you considered that divorce via just killing your wife , giving her back to her parents, etc has always existed maybe even "changed slightly witht he definiton still being the same" King Henery the 8th. Have mistresses not always existed in time? Do you feel that is acceptable to the healthy patriarchal system? If so what is the definiton of truth and honor and a lie? Have you examined double standards? Has it occured to you that your religious platform might have been interpreted wrong by whomever taught you?. That your belief of what we will call fa *perfectly valid and holy material*, could be sorely misinterpreted by you? That you could have made some hasty generalizations based on a bi-product of your own personal fears?

i'm sure there are more questions but Im too tired to present more.

You are certainly and educated person and I will just take the risk of insulting you further by saying this:

I wonder if if your not getting caught up in a few fallacies. Do you feel confident that you have covered all of these terms in the creating of your argument? These are basic as you are well aware, however a check list can be a good thing ...

1.Fallacy 2. Small sample
3. Unrepresentive sample
4.Slanted Study
5.Bad Base Line
6.Suppressed Evidence
7. Gamblers' Fallacies
8. Fallacy of Comparison
9. Questionable Analogy
10.Questionable Classification
11.Questionable Cause
12. confusing correlations with causes
13. Post Hoc
14. Causal Oversimplification
15. Slippery Slope
16.domino Theory

(* note Unwarrented Assumptions)
18. False Delima
19. Only game in town
20. Begging the Question
21. Invincible Ignorance
22. Arguing from Ignorance

peace,

morgaine.

Edited by - morgaine on 26 June 2002 7:30:33

34

Surefire Ways To Know You're A Woman...

by WildTurkey in

you are a bitch.. when asked 'is something bothering you?

' reply 'no' then get pissed off when you are believed.. become attracted to someone because he is outgoing and loves parties, start dating him, and immediately expect him to stop this behavior... always take an hour longer than promised to prepare for the evening.. always hide very important events in very unimportant terms so you can have something to be pissed about when your boyfriend declines because he has pressing business, i.e.

you say 'it's no big deal, but i was wondering if you would like to visit my parents with me if you are not busy this weekend.

Morgaine

heehee, My reply to you would be the same in any definiton and on any thread, sweetums.

I don't like men or women inaccurately labeling themselves and suffering from hasty generalizations

that have compromised the quality of peoples lives. in sexism or in rasism (for men and women)

but i wont rehash it here ive said it 8 times now on 3 different posts so ill just let ya catch up =P.

i've used this forum as a minor platform for both men and women because

I like to take time here and there to voice my opinon and try and make life less of an act of segregation and more one of unity and peace for better relationships

and better living.

it's nice to throw out other viewpoints and i realize that some might/have misunderstand me, and that my presentation may

not be to your liking. but be that as it may /shrug. point still stands...There are many fallacies and negative connotations here (and on other

threads) that deserved to be addressed. Sometimes we don't question why we believe what we do. We dont challenge the foundation of the harmful beliefs

that we take for fact (when they are just opinion or a down right lie). Just because it seems like these things have always existed doesnt make them fact. Racial

inferiority existed as fact until the myth was debunked. Same needs to be applied sexism on both sides of the court. IMO It's good to ask ourselves if we are refering to ourselves

in a negative way - or if we refer to others in a negative way and if these ways are valid solid definitions or just someone's out-dated opinion. It's good to keep an open mind and not live in habit. And it's good to remind eachother of it. I dont

mind being critiqued . We are communicators by trade, human beings are, so i like the interaction and i learn where i can, as best as i can, and add my voice to mix just like everyone else.

heee

. Hey i had some nice insights on eve ... you didnt like that either? <giggles> Wild Turkey looks great in an Apron btw.

Oh, don't let this be you ( i love this quote and it applies to me too. i'm not exempt. i dont want to give that impression)

"Many people would rather die than think. And in fact, they do."

--Bertrand Russell

and thank's for all the smiley faces heee (wicked mouth. i like you!)

peace,

Morgaine

Edited by - morgaine on 25 June 2002 17:20:58

34

Surefire Ways To Know You're A Woman...

by WildTurkey in

you are a bitch.. when asked 'is something bothering you?

' reply 'no' then get pissed off when you are believed.. become attracted to someone because he is outgoing and loves parties, start dating him, and immediately expect him to stop this behavior... always take an hour longer than promised to prepare for the evening.. always hide very important events in very unimportant terms so you can have something to be pissed about when your boyfriend declines because he has pressing business, i.e.

you say 'it's no big deal, but i was wondering if you would like to visit my parents with me if you are not busy this weekend.

Morgaine

Ring darling,

I guess that is the most obvious answer i can get from someone who willingly goes under the title "stiffysmurf". ... unless there is some other sort of meaning other than the obvious to match that title... ?

heeee,

Your gona have to get into my kitchen with Wild Turkey, It's time to do the dishes!

Morgaine

Edited by - morgaine on 24 June 2002 18:21:4

34

Surefire Ways To Know You're A Woman...

by WildTurkey in

you are a bitch.. when asked 'is something bothering you?

' reply 'no' then get pissed off when you are believed.. become attracted to someone because he is outgoing and loves parties, start dating him, and immediately expect him to stop this behavior... always take an hour longer than promised to prepare for the evening.. always hide very important events in very unimportant terms so you can have something to be pissed about when your boyfriend declines because he has pressing business, i.e.

you say 'it's no big deal, but i was wondering if you would like to visit my parents with me if you are not busy this weekend.

Morgaine

Ahhhh...nice one WT (or should I say Adam... heehee)try and summon your buddies to your rescue and take the heat off yourself

 ...not gona happen =D

What's more you've shown us who you are and we believe you! (but you can alter that opinion someday if ya like)

And BG i was just thinking again about how irrational the bible truly is - And what's even worse, 
		you can see even now how all those myths(female inferiority and punishment)are still do deeply embedded in our culture...
		they are hard to debunk even when you no longer play the game. Isn't that right, wild turkey?
		 
		By the way... WT, I think today I would like blueberry... *smiles sweetly*
		peace,
		 morgaine

Edited by - morgaine on 23 June 2002 15:12:14

Edited by - morgaine on 23 June 2002 15:18:3

34

Surefire Ways To Know You're A Woman...

by WildTurkey in

you are a bitch.. when asked 'is something bothering you?

' reply 'no' then get pissed off when you are believed.. become attracted to someone because he is outgoing and loves parties, start dating him, and immediately expect him to stop this behavior... always take an hour longer than promised to prepare for the evening.. always hide very important events in very unimportant terms so you can have something to be pissed about when your boyfriend declines because he has pressing business, i.e.

you say 'it's no big deal, but i was wondering if you would like to visit my parents with me if you are not busy this weekend.

Morgaine

wild turkey ill get to you in a second ...

BG - Yes, i so agree, im glad you felt and saw it too. (whew.. makes me feel better)

and i was thinking that actually i dont even think adam was "manipulated" from the text we are given ...

Eve just said "hey, check this out... "

Adam said "is that from the tree?"

Eve said "yeah - yonder snake friend talked me into not supressing my knoweldge"

Adam said "ok"

then turned spoiled brat. No manipulation from what i could see just a whole lota whinning on adams part - which makes his crime and unfair blame blame (coward style at that) exceptionally wicked.

yep.

morgaine

Edited by - morgaine on 23 June 2002 15:4:3

12

The Geography of Women & Men

by Scully in

the geography of women:.

between the ages of 18 - 21 a woman is like africa or australia.

she is half discovered, half wild and naturally beautiful with bushland around the fertile deltas.. between the ages of 21 - 30 a woman is like america or japan.

Morgaine

Actually you did NOT apologize for using this thread as a platform for your soap-box sermon.

did so, you got freakN mad and missed it. that happens . so i forgive you.(and as i read on i think we both misunderstood eachothers intentions.. ill explain)

EDIT>(doh, your right i did not apologize here but in a different thread on this forum.. your right i mention that at the end but please read on...

I did as you suggested and looked at your whole TEN posts here and found much of the same attitude conveyed. You come across as a holier-than-thou and arrogant individual who has no clue about what it's like growing up in a CULT

untrue i have been in the CULT for exactly that then left after being part of a witch hunt - and went to university thanks.( i was attacked for my intense interest in history and mythology . My friends sold me out - so to speak to the Elders and i was branded a bad influence . I didn't know my place as a woman. heee so you have misjudged me. i misjudged your true intentions too.

for a quarter century and having the notion that MEN are in charge whether they're right or wrong shoved down your throat.

now just because your experience left you powerless doesn't mean the real world is that way. you have the power. your post made fun OF YOU! and it degraded you.

if you were burned that's fine. not all people will burn you as you will soon find out. And your language sister , from your upbringing is poison. You are unwittingly degrading your own flesh when I am on your side. Im sorry, i should realize that my anger for men and women in general shouldn't be so harsh with you who is the brunt of that kind of system. The world is like that - mean to women - but we can take it back. I fight for that. for equality and respect. your joke didn't have any of that.

I personally take affront to the concept that being born with a penis gives a person more privileges than if they were born without one.

I agree, 100% with that. and trust me i fight for that. but you will hurt yourself more by alienating men who have suffered from their own stereotypes. There are some good one's out there and more need to be made. You wouldn't raise a son with such anger towards (edit) WOMEN would you and hurt him a nd make him hate himself? NO! of course you wouldn't some mother's have done that. don't be so angry (which is deserved) that you alienate the good people.

A little rebellion against that attitude in coming out of said CULT is justifiable and understandable.

yes is is

In case you aren't aware of the psychology of humor, people often use it to help them deal with painful emotions. For you to try to dictate to others how to deal with their frustrations is as arrogant as it gets.

nope your wrong here im steps ahead of you (sorry not a dis maybe i have been out of the religion for a bit longer than you so i caught the implications here a bit faster ... you will to as time goes on). while you saw that males were ripped on you over looked the true inference of that joke. that is as you age you as a woman become less valid.

If you don't find humor in my posts in that section of the forum, may I kindly invite you to WALK ON BY. Nobody is forcing you to read them. If you find my posts offensive, feel free to IGNORE THEM.

I want to bring awareness to men and women. i don't think in the heat of your rage you really read and thought about my posts. I'm on humankinds side and i fight for the equality and not the inferiority of women

Regards,

Morgaine

ps sorry no editing i wanted to make quick clarifications.

ps ugh. your right scully i apologized in another thread not this one. still i hope this clarifies where im coming from a bit more for you.

Edited by - morgaine on 23 June 2002 3:22:38

12

The Geography of Women & Men

by Scully in

the geography of women:.

between the ages of 18 - 21 a woman is like africa or australia.

she is half discovered, half wild and naturally beautiful with bushland around the fertile deltas.. between the ages of 21 - 30 a woman is like america or japan.

Morgaine

ok ill try and map it out

issue is that joke A. emphasizes all the ways a woman becomes invalid as she ages but a man will always be ruled by sex.

so if no one wants to "have at" a woman who is past her "prime" then tell me who does the man who is always after sex then go after? (not all men are like this but im going with the inference posted) but really do you support the idea that as you age you will be replace with a younger model because all you are is the sum of your total physical fleshy parts? look at that joke again and just try and justify that that underlying inisinuations are not just THAT. we are not making fun of short people here . the issue is much deeper than that. you dont even realize how your own language and self-image is poisoned. "self - help" find some - and be whole ..

and.. a woman suffers damage?(why is ageing damage? explain this to me please) but no mention of the damage a man suffers as he ages like balding and back hair and constant issues over never owning a good enought "insert hot car here " (to embrace a stereotype)..

but he will seek out the chica who has less damage?

that's freakN funny?

whatever sisters and brothers - i find that the unsaid inference floating on this air wave i choose not to breathe in THX~

I dont understand why it's funny to put yourself in this role. maybe i could have presented it better but wow.. it's so sad and well, frustrating to see someone willingly degrade themselves and hate themselves like that.

=(

really we need to question why it is we believe what we do. some unchallenged beliefs harbor so many fallacies that can compromise the quality of life. its very disturbing.

peace,

m.

Edited by - morgaine on 23 June 2002 1:37:13

Edited by - morgaine on 23 June 2002 1:38:52

Edited by - morgaine on 23 June 2002 1:41:23