Posts by NameWithheld

21

Money $?$?$?

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

just curious they seem to have an endless supply of literature but they never ask me to pay them for the books.

and i never see a collection basket being passed around.

so how do they get their money???.

If you even begin to attend the thursday night meeting you will hear a LOT about donating, from 'account reports' (a monthly notice that the Kingdom Hall is behind on all it's bills and not enough $$ was given to cover expenses), to special 'announcements' to remind the people to give. No no donation plate is passed around, but the donation boxes are hard to miss at the kingdom hall. Pretty much every thrusday night we had some announcement about $$. Studies are not usually invited to those meetings right off, they start you at the small bookstudy or Sunday 'public talks'.

Even though they 'give away' the books, the local cong MUST PAY the WTBTS for each month's lituature shipments, usually in a 'donation to the worldwide work' that comes out of the local cong funds. If they fail to pay, they WILL NOT have more books shipped to them. This is VERY hush hush, but all the accounts servants know about it. So in turn the local cong pressures the local JW's to contribute to cover those costs. Sometimes JWs will suggest to people at the door that they may contribute if they'd like to, but most JWs I know are not very comfortable asking for that and just pay for the books themselves. The WTBTS leaves little coded hints in various places as to how much to pay for different things usuing words like "similar CD-ROMS cost as much as $50-300" or "you could mention that similar books sell for $5", etc. This is a way to communicate 'how much' the JWs should contribute for each item without outright setting prices (which would get them into tax trouble, which is the whole reason they stopped charging for books in the first place).

40

Are you still a pacifist?

by wasasister in

jw
friends

last night, i found myself wondering aloud about something i never thought i would consider: purchasing a gun.

previously, i had very strong anti-gun sentiments.

i felt, and still do to some extent, that freely available guns in this country are an immediate threat to children and add to the violent perception others have of americans.

NameWithheld

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

Kinda flippant, but true. In times past guns were around everybody, and children were exposed from and early age and taught how to use them. Those same children were not taking said guns to school and killing their classmates. But that's upbringing ... (another topic entirely!)

This is a touchy subject for sure! If you try and wipe out all the guns, the only people who will have guns are the police/military and criminals who WILL find a way to obtain them. If that's OK w/ you so be it, but some people in the US are concerned that that gives up their freedoms. In other words they would feel helpless to defend their land again gov't intrusion. Of course, some of those people are real wackos too :D but there has to be a middle ground. Some of the people in the gov't are real wackos too :o ;)

Also the cops aren't always (in fact rarely are) around to help when a violent crime is committed.

7

Looking to the future

by individuals wife in

jw
friends

it was a wonderful hope to be given - to live forever in a paradise earth, never to grow old, never to suffer the aches and pains of an ageing body, to see your family grow generation after generation.

it was a relief not having to worry about how we would survive on an old age pension, who would look after us in our twilight years or how we could manage if we were bereaved and left alone to look after ourselves with failing health.. now that the illusion has been destroyed and reality has set in it has put boundaries on our lifespan on this earth.

we have to look at practicalities, a pension, long term health care, securing a happy and comfortable retirement.

NameWithheld

I think this is one of the more difficult things to deal with for those of us who grew up 'in the troof'. After being pounded daily into your head that 'you won't go to high school, you won't move out, you won't get a job, etc, etc' (and realizing that same stuff was told to YOUR parents!) - you get into a 'future doesn't matter' frame of mind. Planning for old age then becomes a difficult concept to think about. Now middle age is on the horizon and I realize there is precious little time to enjoy life (and yet be able to save for old age).

I think even more sad for me is realizing that my parents have been living the same lie WAY longer than me, and still are. And now they are nearing retirement age and live in a day-to-day struggle to pay the bills. 10 more years when they can't work what happens? There's no retirement fund. There's no true friends that will help when the time comes. And the other children are living the same lie and thus are continuing the tradition of only making enough $$ to scrape by. There will be no help there either. All I can hope is I've put myself into a good enough position to be of some use.

And the JW's call this materialistic, all the while planning on taking the nice homes and fancy cars over after Jah kills the owners! :o Or taking gov't handouts that the rest of us have 20-35% of our checks ripped out to provide.

42

Studying

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

i flat out asked the jw i'm studying with what she would do if someone was disfellowshipped and she was honest and said she wouldn't talk to them since they wouldn't be good examples of jehovah witness.

then we started talking about appearances and tattoos, and about my pink hair :) and she said it didn't matter.

i am enjoying reading and visiting this web site but i am just not seeing the same things you guys have.

NameWithheld

I thought from reading posts that they never told you that if you were disfellowshipped you would be treated differently. She pointed out in the bible today that Jehovah must come first before family and friends, I take it that is why they have this postition.

Well, they cannot deny it if you ask them point blank, but trust me it's not something they will proudly announce to a new person either. I think it secretly ashames most of the honest/good hearted JW's and in fact know MANY JW's who break the 'talking to DF'ed' people rule IF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. Kind of like children hiding candy from mom and dad ...

And as far as the bible's saying to put God/Jesus before family, that doesn't mean to cut family off either!

Name,
as for my tats I have a dragon on my right upper arm, geisha in front of waves on my left arm, dragon on my wrist, dragon on my upper back, sun on my lower back, and one on my ankle. They are very large and colorful so if they think I can get them removed they are crazy.

Sounds very cool! No, they'd probably not require to to remove them, since they are 'pre-existing' but they could possibly 'encourage' you to dress in clothing that would hide many/most or them when at meetings/preaching/etc.

42

Studying

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

i flat out asked the jw i'm studying with what she would do if someone was disfellowshipped and she was honest and said she wouldn't talk to them since they wouldn't be good examples of jehovah witness.

then we started talking about appearances and tattoos, and about my pink hair :) and she said it didn't matter.

i am enjoying reading and visiting this web site but i am just not seeing the same things you guys have.

NameWithheld

Here's one more thing:

If you are attracted to the social aspect try and say you don't want to study anymore but would like to keep associated with them (her and her daughter?). She what happens. You are still you (same person) but they will want nothing to do with if you don't constantly progress towards joining the religion.

42

Studying

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

i flat out asked the jw i'm studying with what she would do if someone was disfellowshipped and she was honest and said she wouldn't talk to them since they wouldn't be good examples of jehovah witness.

then we started talking about appearances and tattoos, and about my pink hair :) and she said it didn't matter.

i am enjoying reading and visiting this web site but i am just not seeing the same things you guys have.

NameWithheld

As far as this woman's daughter getting a tatto, I can almost gaurantee it's going to be in a place/size that's not noticable or can be hidden by most clothing, cause if it was visible in normal clothing the elders would be all over her in a heartbeat. Of course, it's not a 'disfellowshipping' offense (though I wouldn't be shocked to hear of someone being DF'ed for it either!) but if the elders take issue with it this woman's daughter will not get any 'privileges' in the cong. Of course, the poor girl may not WANT any of those 'privileges' :D She may (probably) just wants to live her life - but that option is not open to her while she lives with JW parents.

42

Studying

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

i flat out asked the jw i'm studying with what she would do if someone was disfellowshipped and she was honest and said she wouldn't talk to them since they wouldn't be good examples of jehovah witness.

then we started talking about appearances and tattoos, and about my pink hair :) and she said it didn't matter.

i am enjoying reading and visiting this web site but i am just not seeing the same things you guys have.

NameWithheld

Tattogirl: BTW, what are the tattos?

Please do take JeffT's offer. Look over his material - it's all reprints from Watchtower publications. The problem is that it's so convoluted and conterdictory that current JW's are embarrased or ashamed of it. They will NOT want to talk about it, and if you insist on showing it to them they will more than likely leave (never to come back).

JW's have a LONG history of failed end of the world predictions and flip-flopping teachings and rules. When you show it to them they will try and explain it away with the old "we got NEW LIGHT on that matter and no longer beleive that way" as if that makes everything OK.

How does that explain for example that they taught that if a woman was raped and did NOT scream for help she was gulity of fornication, then changed their minds to say that she was NOT guilty, then changed again to say she WAS, then NOT, then WAS, then NOT. This went on for years. That's NEW LIGHT? Sounds more like a strobe light to me.

Same applies to their teaching on if the people of Sodom and Gommorah would be resurrected or not. That changed many times, YES, NO, YES, NO.

Those are just a couple of examples. There are more. 1975 was a big one, they allowed a big fevor to build in the people (even suggesting that people should sell homes, forfeit jobs, etc to go full time preaching) that 1975 was going to be armagedon, then when it didn't happen, blamed the people for "getting carried away!"

For details on these just search these forums, you will find LOTs of proof via quotes from the older JW publications that they did indeed teach these things. Even though the JWs now try and pretend that never happend.

This is NOT just another 'nice' religion. If you join, prepare to give your life away to pleasing the local elders and preaching (selling mags/books on your own dime). To leave the religion will be an emotionally devistating challenge. Just look at hom many here are still suffering sometimes MANY years after leaving.

42

Studying

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

i flat out asked the jw i'm studying with what she would do if someone was disfellowshipped and she was honest and said she wouldn't talk to them since they wouldn't be good examples of jehovah witness.

then we started talking about appearances and tattoos, and about my pink hair :) and she said it didn't matter.

i am enjoying reading and visiting this web site but i am just not seeing the same things you guys have.

NameWithheld

Number one: When they are studying with a 'new' person, that new person is a potential convert to the religion. No matter what they say, THAT is the real reason they are knocking on doors. To convert people to JW religion. So they will gloss over the bad points (rules) until your are more firmly in their grasp.

You don't think the Disfellowshipping is a bad pratice? Wait until ALL your friend and family are JWs and you cross an elder (for ANY reason) and find yourself DF'd. Now you cannot talk to ANYONE of your freinds or family for 6 months to 3 years, depending on how long the local elders decide to 'punish' you. Can you take it? Emotionally? And don't think that you can just go make non-JW freinds while your are DF'd, cause if you do, they will take that as a sign of wordly behaviour and not reinstate (un-disfellowship) you.

Basically once you join the group, you MUST abide by ALL the rules if you want to retain any social structure. For the most part the local elders set the rules - what cloths are ok, hair styles, movies, books, drinking, etc, etc. And if you offend someone with your actions(and you WILL offend someone eventually no matter how careful you are) you may get branded as 'spirtually weak', and even if you are not DF'ed find that no-one will associate with you.

Many of us here were 'born' into the religion and had no choice. And we have for the most part sacrificed 'normal' relationships with childhood freinds and family to get out. If you cannot see the bad in that then please proceed with your study. Just don't be shocked later when the rules start coming down.

Think your pink hair will stay? Think again. Not if you want to 'go in service' or 'give talks', etc. And you WILL be expected to do all those things. I bet you will have to make sure no one can see the tattos either, which are taboo. Or have them removed. If they are telling you that you will not have to do these things, then that is a flat out lie.

Right now you are in the 'love bomb' stage of recruitment, they will love you to death right now. Once the claws are sunk in though that love disappears faster than you can ever believe.

5

And This Afternoons Speaker Is: (Drum Roll).....

by Englishman in

jw
friends

come on, you extrovert guys, be honest now.. wasn't giving a public talk a heady experience?.

didn't you get a real buzz just from being able to keep your audiences eyes riveted on your every gesture?.

did you get a high from suddenly pausing and making your listeners wait in breathless anticiption for your next word?.

NameWithheld

Yup, I got a big kick out of Public talks - some from regular Thursday parts, but those 45 min talks were like a total power trip, then you got to hear all the 'nice talk' compliments after. It was a kick in the backside to 'lose' such 'privileges' <shudder> Wouldn't want to do it now though ...

Funny thing is, we were basically reading manuscripts even though they were 'outline' based.

16

ARENT WE ALL A BIT BITTER?

by josephus in

jw
friends

i cant help but think some of you guys are just tooooo angry for your past hurts.. weve all got terrible stories which can make us cry, but whats the motivation for such bitterness ?.

some people search out pervets, seemingly to lay these scumbags and their faults at the societys door.. others try to use thier bad times as an excuse to rubbish the entire religion.. i am not saying that jws are great, or that the society is perfect or undeserving of punishment.. but why are we not trying to even up the good points of the religion.. no smoking, no drugs, no abortion, on and on, and on.. and then try to remember the good times you all had at the meetings.

the laughs and the help you gave, and received.

NameWithheld

but why are we not trying to even up the GOOD POINTS of the religion.
NO SMOKING, NO DRUGS, NO ABORTION, ON AND ON, AND ON.
and then try to remember the GOOD times you all had at the meetings. the laughs and the help you gave, and received
from others.

I'm not sure what rock you were hiding under, but every hall I went too had more than it's share of all of the above. People are people, no matter what label they put on, and people do the above things. Some get caught, some don't. Some who are caught are given the beatings - while others 'get away' with it. All depends on who you 'know'. "NO DRUGS" ha ha ha ha ha ha - there was more drug/alcahol abuse amongst the young JW's I knew than you could shake a stick at.

Now as to the 'good times' - they were never at the meetings. They were always socializing away from meetings and usually involved 'pleasures of the flesh' as it were, eating, drinking, etc. During younger days it also involved getting as close to the members of the female species as often as possible too. Meetings were simply tolterated since if you missed them you fell 'out of the loop' and began not to be invited to all those wonderful 'bring a dish' social events. Let's not even get into the barely bearable 'spiritual food' being dispensed. Ugg. Boring even before I knew it was total BS.

ALL of the 'good' things about this 'religion' are present in people all over the place - because people are people, and some are good/pleasant, some are not. I enjoy the same things in life now as I did then, I just don't have to tolerate conditional 'love' and boring meetings to impress my 'friends'. Now I can be freinds with people simply for the fact that we enjoy similar activities.