Thanks, and I will
NameWithheld
JoinedPosts by NameWithheld
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133
MAJOR UN/WTS/NGO NEWS - WTS IS GONE
by hawkaw inas of 11:45 this morning (i had a telphone call this morning with the refernce department person named holly at 212-963-7234), i can tell you that the watchtower has disassociated itself from the united nations dpi!!!!!!.
the dpi is now taking them off the list.
the dpi requested the list removal to be done this morning!!!!!.
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29
More Wondering and Self doubt
by Vitameatavegamin inhello friends, this is your vitameatavegamin girl.
by the way, don't forget to watch the i love lucy marathon on tv land starting october 15th, it should be a hoot.
50th anniversary of the show.. anyway, lately i have been doing more thinking about everything.
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NameWithheld
Yes Stacy, once your brain wraps itself around the fact that's it's OK to have question that perhaps you will NEVER know the answers to life gets much more rewarding. No more beating yourself silly trying to reconcile weird beleifs against reality ...
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133
MAJOR UN/WTS/NGO NEWS - WTS IS GONE
by hawkaw inas of 11:45 this morning (i had a telphone call this morning with the refernce department person named holly at 212-963-7234), i can tell you that the watchtower has disassociated itself from the united nations dpi!!!!!!.
the dpi is now taking them off the list.
the dpi requested the list removal to be done this morning!!!!!.
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NameWithheld
What's the phone code to block caller ID? I want to call Bethel too. Anyone have the # handy? Thanks!
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37
How Does One Find Another Religion
by pettygrudger inthis is probably a strange question, but how do you "pick" something else to study?
i'm having a hard time just picking up the bible & reading it - but i'm terrified of picking up any "study material" from other organized religions to help.
which bible do i use?
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NameWithheld
Excellent post LDH, and good advise. Why jump right into another man made religion. And don't confine your study to just the bible, it's not the only 'god's book' out there. As far as getting manuscripts older - they're in greek/hebrew/aremaic(sp?)/others so to REALLY study them you'd have to learn those languages, and not only the language, but how it was used 2000+ years ago. Not an easy task, and one reason there is so much dispute over 'correct' translation of the bible.
Just remember there are no concrete answers, if you want to by into a religion you will have to make a leap of faith, and trust what some man/men have decided is 'truth'. There is no other way in the religous world. Not until god would decide to come down and tell us what to do in no uncertain terms (thundering voice from sky? Perhaps, but have to make sure it wasn't the CIA or something too )- which last I check I haven't heard of happening ...
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29
More Wondering and Self doubt
by Vitameatavegamin inhello friends, this is your vitameatavegamin girl.
by the way, don't forget to watch the i love lucy marathon on tv land starting october 15th, it should be a hoot.
50th anniversary of the show.. anyway, lately i have been doing more thinking about everything.
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NameWithheld
One more thing, JWs are SO big on "We are the one true org, Jah directs us, blah blah, no one else has the 'truth'" etc. But yet youu are to read NO disenting views. You are taught to react with fear at all 'apostate' thoughts least your 'faith' be shaken. Why would god's true org be so fragile against attacks then? If it is so 'true' why is it so easy to see all the cracks in it? Why is it when anyone REALLY begins to examine the JW org it falls apart on them? If it were really the only tru org, wouldn't it REALLY stand out among mankind? And yet to the people whose lives it hasn't touched it is meaningless.
Yes JWs get all excited when Johnny Carson jokes about them "See we are world renown" but to non-JWs they are just a joke. All they know are these funny people come to their doors and bother them with mags. 99.9% never give a thought to the message being given, and in fact the average JW doesn't give a message they just want to place a mag/book. And people aren't reading them. The average JW cannot be effective in a real bible debate anyway, once the heat turns up the JW scurrys away saying "Their hearts weren't receptive". You think that god is directing such an ineffective work? I don't. The Mormons are growing faster than JWs, does that make them the 'one true org'? It would seem their preaching is more effective ...
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29
More Wondering and Self doubt
by Vitameatavegamin inhello friends, this is your vitameatavegamin girl.
by the way, don't forget to watch the i love lucy marathon on tv land starting october 15th, it should be a hoot.
50th anniversary of the show.. anyway, lately i have been doing more thinking about everything.
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NameWithheld
Vitameatavegamin: I hate to say this so bluntly, but you are falling victim to brainwashing techniques - all you know is what has been pounded into your head day after day with NO disenting views presented to you for years. Of course you mind will fall back into 'comfortable' places, thinking the answer to all life's problems are "More meetings, more service, more confession to elders". This is because that message has been presented to you for years.
It takes time and a lot of research into OTHER views to finally free your mind of the fear that you have been programmed into. For example, if you were raised Catholic, you would fear not going to confession lest you die with sins and go to hell/purgatory. Those fears would be VERY real to you, just as real as your current fear of dying at the big 'A'. If you were raised Muslim you might fear NOT dying in battle lest you not qualify for paradise. This fear would be as real to you as your current fears. Think how fearful those men who flew planes into buildings were. They truely beleived they were going to paradise. Do YOU think they are? Why not? Because you have not been indoctrinated into that beleif system. They were.
So are you really going to think that god/jehovah/allah/whoever really cares if you go knock on doors? Of perhaps his true will is that you kill infidels. Or perhaps it that you attend Mass weekly. You interpritation of 'gods will' is being based on WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT. You don't KNOW that it's true, it's just easy to beleive it is true since you were taught from a young age. It will take time trust me to develope the ability to think beyond the box you have drawn around yourself. But once you do the world changes, and I think for the better. No longer will you be entraped by fear everyday of your life. No more guilt trips over every little 'infraction' you do. No more living you life for others.
Do you think if there was a god who created us like we are, giving us the ability to think for ourselves, and do what we want, he desires all people to be mindless little automen? Blindly following whomever designs to rule the current religion we are belonging to?
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Family About to Disown Me
by Moridin inwell i finally got the guts to tell my mother that i had enlisted in the army.
she didn't say a whole lot to me, but she did tell my sister she was calling the elders and that when i was df'd she would have nothing to do with me.
i can't say that it suprises me too much, but i was hoping for more of an adult reaction.
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NameWithheld
Hats off to you Mordin, quite a sacrifice to join now with what is happening, especially considering the fact you have a familiy. Too bad there aren't more like you in this country. Thanks!
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Questions about the WTS and the UN
by Leander ini just learned about the society's connection with the un and i'm shocked.
i had been experiencing doubts before but this new information is like a slap in the face.
before i begin with the questions i should probably start with a introduction.. i'm a 29 year old married man serving as a minsterial servant in the south suburbs of chicago.
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NameWithheld
Leander: No you are by no means alone - I'm another one, raised in the JWs, pioneered, etc. I was always one of those who kind of bought into it, but then again, I never really thought about it much, I mean, it was hard not to see the massive amts of politics, hypocrosy, etc going on, but it was expected that you should ignore it "Jah will take care of it" blah blah.
Awakening to the 'truth' about the 'truth' is a painful process. It is very sad that the JW org holds your friends and family as a hostage to keep you 'in the org'. I mean it makes no sense from a 'christain' standpoint - why would an org want to keep you in so much if it's against your will? But they do use emotional blackmail to keep members. It's all about power - there's no way to get around that.
Same with this UN thing. It's all about making the JW religion appear to be a good thing to the gov'ts of the world. To effect tax breaks, etc. Start to examine how much time/effor the WTBTS puts into protecting it's tax status in so many countries - the 'donation' arrangement is a perfect example. Passed off to JWs as a 'simplifcation' to 'speed up the work'. Why couldn't they be honest - "The gov't was going to tax us, so we changed sematics to get around the law" - I mean, most JWs would not have flinched at that even. But they couch every move they make, trying to sneak around and distract the JWs so they are not aware of what's going on.
Welcome to a new phase of your life, trust me, it hurts at first, but it gets better. Make new friends (ones YOU pick, not ones you are forced to 'like' just cause they're elders or pioneers in your congo). Try new things. Realize that it is OK to try and get something out of THIS life you are living NOW and not live with you head in the clouds that the big A is coming any day now. Stop putting off those things you want to accomplish. 29 is a good age to begin IF (and that's a big if) god decides to kill 6 billion humans in his war 'soon' then you will either 1) live, or b) die. But there's one thing for sure - so far everyone on this planet has lived for awhile and then died. You can count on that. So in my mind, while I'm alive I want to enjoy what opportunities I have.
Of course, just my opinion, but I don't think that a god is going to come here and kill 6 billion people ... not 'soon' not ever. But I could be wrong
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30
Whats your thoughts on sex & the WTS
by Leander inhopefully this topic won't shock anyone, i'll try to keep my comments as tasteful as possible.
just recently (last weekend) my younger brother met with the elders because he was engaged in fornication.
the elders decided to disfellowship him even though he had long stopped having any contact with the person he had been involved with.
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NameWithheld
Pretty much the same - so many people are 'forced' into marrage way to young simply to satisfy the sexual drive - and many of those marrages end up with two very badly matched people who end up a) divorced or b) very unhappy together. Not to say the idea of 'free love' and being very promiscuous is a great idea either, but I don't think it helps to think so black and white in sexual (or most other) matters. Would you buy a car without a test drive? Well, perhaps people should take a test drive and make sure all the bits 'n peices work well before making what should be a life long commitment too. Just MHO. It would also remove getting married simply to 'get some' from the equation as well. Another area that christains would have us beleive that god is waiting to trap humans - give them strong sex drives, but then micro-manage sex.
We won't even get into how much trouble young JWs get into for flogging the bishop, whacking the weasle, polishing the knob, etc
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annointed, part of this world, war, signs - HELP!
by concerned fiance inhi, in a continued effort to educate my fiance and open his eyes, i am trying to understand how to refute certain things he has said and get proof of some of the issues that i have read on various threads here over the past week.
please, please, can people answer back on how i should respond.... 1. in franz's book, he doesn't come out and say that he was one of the annointed, but yet he accepted a position as a member of the gb (my fiance spoke to franz last week and asked him a question regarding being annointed, to which franz answered "well, i had the a heavenly hope that i was annointed.." well, that threw my fiance off and now he doubts whether franz ever truly believed he was annointed.
i have told him that noone can ever prove if they were annointed, but he says that the annointed "just know, they have that feeling and know without a doubt that they will be in heaven with god and jesus.
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NameWithheld
On the #1 point - trying to debate about a 'feeling' is usless. You cannot 'prove' annointing, and in fact this causes quite a problem for the poor poor elders in congo's where people 'profess' to be annointed and partake at memorial - do the elders count them or not. so in the end I guess the elders decide who is and is not. As far as Ray Franz goes, when he was a JW he partook of the memorial and he still professes to have a heavanly hope so what more is there to say on that matter?
#2 - that's simply untrue. Typical JW propaganda, they are told over and over "we are the only ones who <insert soemthing here>" that they beleive it. AFAIK, Quakers don't join military, Mormons?, I'm sure if you wanted to you could find other religions that hold to the same "stay out of the world" beliefs. It's easy to stick your head in the sand and say "JW's are the only ones doing ...." and NONE of those people have REALLY checked out the alternatives.
3# - how do you fight fear? I don't know. People raised in this cult have an irrational fear of death/the end. But ask him if when going to JW's did he ever feel in his heart that he was good enough to 'make it' thru armageddon? I know many of us (me included) never felt we were good enough. Why would god pick a religion that oppressed people into that frame of mind? Why would god say "Get 10 hours a month or die"?