It seems unlikely that the apostles of Jesus wrote anything at all except perhaps for Thomas, and his writing was surpressed by the Catholic Church and did not make the "canon". Even that got added on to before it was surpressed. Neither Mark nor Luke were apostles. The Gospel attributed to John is writen in high order Greek by someone who seems to be unfamiliar with Aramaic customs and culture. That could not have been the Apostle John. As Narkissos has pointed out in an earlier thread, the Gospel of John had several additions and changes to make the somewhat "gnostic flavor" acceptable to the established church. Of all the Gospel accounts, it is my favorite. I do believe that Jesus walked the earth, managed to resurrect himself, and departed in a "blaze of light". I believe that the did all of this to show us what the possibilites could be if we would only wake up to our true nature. He hasn't gone anywhere and has been here all along. He can't really go home until we are all ready to go with him. That may take awhile.
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JoinedPosts by Navigator
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79
Are the gospels genuine?
by ackack ini've been reading the jesus puzzle and something interesting was this re-ordering of q. its seems like the various pieces of q in luke and matthew have different contexts.
this would support that the contexts for the q sayings were invented.. it seems that paul doesn't reference the gospels in any form.. does this support a late writing for the gospels and therefore calls into question how close the gospels were written to the alleged events of jesus' life?.
how would someone who believes in the gospels reconcile these differences?
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Regarding the holy Trinity
by kristiano1122 ini want to know why jw dont accept the holy trinity even though there is enough biblical evidence in the bible regarding this.
the following passages are from the book of john .
1:1. in the beginning was the word: and the word was with god: and the word was god.
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Narkissos
Doesn't it seem to you to be a miracle that the Gospel of John made it past the censors when the New Testament canon was finalized? The Gospel almost seems to have a Gnostic flavor to it.
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Regarding the holy Trinity
by kristiano1122 ini want to know why jw dont accept the holy trinity even though there is enough biblical evidence in the bible regarding this.
the following passages are from the book of john .
1:1. in the beginning was the word: and the word was with god: and the word was god.
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Kristiano
I would give up quoting 1John 5:7 as support for the Trinity doctrine. It is acknowledged by most bible scholars that the passage "There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and the three are one" is phony. It got added in Spain ca. 380 a.d.and is nowhere found in the most ancient manuscripts or in the early church fathers. The Catholic Church had a monestary in Spain that specialized in "ageing" manuscripts so that they appeared to be more ancient than they were. One of the early Greek scholars working for a Swiss printer got fooled by one of these and incorporated it into his translation which was later used by the King James compilers. You won't find the passage in the Revised Standard Version and most modern translations as the fraud was discovered after the King James edition was published.
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Regarding the holy Trinity
by kristiano1122 ini want to know why jw dont accept the holy trinity even though there is enough biblical evidence in the bible regarding this.
the following passages are from the book of john .
1:1. in the beginning was the word: and the word was with god: and the word was god.
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Navigator
Narkissos-Good Suggestion! Charles Fillmore, the founder of the Unity movement, once replied when asked whether Jesus was God:
"Jesus was not God! However, he so gave up his sense of personal self and so identified with his creator that it becomes difficult to tell where Jesus leaves off and God begins."
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Alligators and crocodiles?
by gringojj insomeone with no knowledge of nature could semi-succesfully argue that lions could possibly eat straw.
but what about crocs?
how can someone argue that these reptiles will possibly be able to eat anything other than meat?
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Navigator
Someone with no knowledge of nature could semi-succesfully argue that lions could POSSIBLY eat straw. ; But what about crocs? ; How can someone argue that these reptiles will possibly be able to eat anything other than meat?
Someone with no knowledge of nature could invent the whole ridiculous "paradise earth" concept. The entire purpose of the earth (and the Universe)is to serve as a location to experience the illusion of separation from God. When we wake up and realize that the separation never actually occurred, the earth will no longer have a purpose and will disappear along with the rest of the universe. For more on the subject read "The Disappearance of the Universe" by Gary Rhea. -
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Vatican acknowledges evolution theory
by skinnyboy inhttp://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html
evolution in the bible, says vaticanfrom: by martin penner.
november 07, 2005 the vatican has issued a stout defence of charles darwin, voicing strong criticism of christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
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Navigator
Remember, we are talking about the instituion that condemed the writings of Copernicus when he suggested that the earth was rotating on its axis and revolved around the sun We are talking about the institution that burned several scientists at the stake for refusing to recant their belief in the findings of Copernicus. This is the outfit that placed Gallio under house arrest for similar teachings even though he did recant them on pain of death.
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Why did Jesus have to die?
by ghostbuster ini disassociated myself from jws about 20 years ago so i'm a bit rusty on christian teaching.
the intersting thing though is i hadn't completely disassociated my mind from their teachings and it's only been recently that i've had true independent thought.
it's scary if you think about it.
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Navigator
As far as I know, the resurrection of Lazurus was a temporary one. He later died. Tradition has it that he was murdured by the religious authorities. Nepotism? I'm not aware that Jesus and Lazurus were related. I still believe that the whole crucifixtion thing was a demonstation that death was an illusion.
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Why did Jesus have to die?
by ghostbuster ini disassociated myself from jws about 20 years ago so i'm a bit rusty on christian teaching.
the intersting thing though is i hadn't completely disassociated my mind from their teachings and it's only been recently that i've had true independent thought.
it's scary if you think about it.
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Navigator
I, like you, find the idea that Jesus had to die for the expiation of "sin" highly repugnant. Suppose, however, that the real mission of Jesus was to demonstrate that there was no such thing as death. It is kinda hard to make the demonstration without going through the process. I find it interesting that he is completly submissive to the entire process in light of a line in "A Course In Miracles" which goes, "That which you defend against, you make real to your own mind". He successfully demonstrated that death was an illusion and could be overcome. Would the "resurrection" have been possible if he had railed against the Romans and the Jewish leaders for what they were doing to him? I doubt it. The "sacrifice for sin" idea seems to be the result of trying to fit the radical stuff that Jesus was teaching into the existing "Theological Box" of the early Jewish Christians. The result of this "he died for my sins" concept is that we wind up feeling guiltier than ever. Come to think of it, isn't that(guilt) what makes churches go?
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Heavenly hope????? What do you believe?
by findingmyway ini am currently reading coc (just starting chapter 11 - point of decision).
i was also just reading on shaun's site the time magazine article (http://www.jwfiles.com/franz-article.htm) on ray franz's shunning.
i didn't realize that he and many other dissenters believe that all who belive in christ will go to heaven.
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Navigator
A Course in Miracles puts it this way:
" God's will is that you be in Heaven and nothing can keep you from it or it from you"
I just wish that I could accept that truth this time around without having to come back again and again.
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"Jesus saves because he died for us."
by daniel-p in"jesus saves because he died for us.
and what a valuable provision his death is!
when we see it as a part of god's solution to the complex problem of adam's sin, our faith in jehovah and his way of doing things is strengthened.
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Navigator
Have you ever considered that the Apostle Paul and the early disciples had it all wrong? Could it not be that the real reason Jesus went through the "cruxifixion thingie" was to demonstrate that death was not real and could be overcome? I do not believe in a God that requires "sacrifice".