Posts by vienne

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Paul wrote at 1 Corinthians 15:3-4: "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."

Matthew 12:40 has Jesus saying: “just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”

Jesus wasn't in paradise on his death. He was in the grave, as Paul wrote "according to the Scriptures." Ergo, the proper coma placement is: "Truly, I tell you today," not "I tell you, today."

The ἀμήν (amen, truly, verily) at Luke 23:43 indicates a fixed, firm pronouncement. There is no thought of: "Okay this is truth, but I might lie to you later."

9

Jolene Chu and Ollimatti Peltonen publication

by careful in

just published in cambridge university press's elements in new religious movements series, a short book or oversized pamphlet is now available by two witnesses, jolene chu from warwick and ollimatti peltonen from the selters branch.

https://www.amazon.com/jehovahs-witnesses-elements-religious-movements/dp/1009509764.

it's small, just 84 pages, including the bibliography.

vienne

"It is academically dishonest in many places. For instance, on page 14, in the 2nd paragraph from the top, the claim is made that during Russell's lifetime the early Bible Students 'concluded that 1914 had marked the beginning of Christ's heavenly rule.'"

While I agree the document if flawed, I don't think this is a flaw, though it is misleading. Russellites believed Christ's parousia began in 1874, but they taught that Christ's rule over/on the earth would begin in 1914 when the Saints would be "Translated." For instance, Kingdom Come (Studies vol. 3, page 126 speaks of a dispensation, the harvest period from 1878-1914, as lasting "until the overthrow of the professedly Christian kingdoms, really 'kingdoms of this world,' and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God in the earth at A. D. 1914, the terminus of the Times of the Gentiles." Volume 2, Time is at Hand, chapter four, discusses this in more detail.

The issue is misdirection by lack of detail.

8

Interesting bit of Watch Tower history

by vienne in

two images of allegheny city and a challenge.

see https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/ the newest post.

.

vienne

Two images of Allegheny City and a challenge. See https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/ the newest post.

3121

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

vienne

isn't that an upgrade from being a hemorrhoid?

7

Conversion Therapy for Gay Bethelites in Poland (?)

by Jensus in

recently, there was a rather accurate report on jw on german tv station "sat1".

you find it on their streaming service joyn.. https://www.joyn.de/serien/jenseits-des-glaubens-zwischen-religion-und-verblendung/1-2-die-zeugen-jehovas.

there was one piece of information that was new for me: a former bethelite explained that he realized that he was gay.

vienne

I suspect it is a private venture by some misguided souls. Doesn't fit with the usual Watchtower acts. As I understand it, the WT approach is to advice homosexuals to be celibate and to "pummel their body" into submission.

6

new book

by vienne in

you may be interested in this research: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2024/12/grave-matters.html.

this is a brief history of the watch tower cemetery where russell is buried.

i read it this morning.

vienne

!!! Quick Draw was waaay before my time. I had to google the show. No need to be sorry.

6

new book

by vienne in

you may be interested in this research: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2024/12/grave-matters.html.

this is a brief history of the watch tower cemetery where russell is buried.

i read it this morning.

vienne

That's a puzzle. Copyright page says 2024. I'm thinin' it's a typo.

6

new book

by vienne in

you may be interested in this research: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2024/12/grave-matters.html.

this is a brief history of the watch tower cemetery where russell is buried.

i read it this morning.

vienne

You may be interested in this research: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2024/12/grave-matters.html

This is a brief history of the Watch Tower Cemetery where Russell is buried. I read it this morning. It is very interesting.

Annie

408

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

vienne

I put off posting this hoping someone else would address it. Didn't happen.

This responds to an earlier post by SeaBr. He/she posted an image of a tablet, claiming that it called Jesus God. He/She claimed it dated to 230 CE. He/She also wrote: “This is 100 years before Christianity became the state religion and was supposedly corrupted by Constantine according to Watchtower.”

In point of fact, the date is in dispute. That’s true of most finds from this era, and I’m not competent enough to add to that debate. However, the tablet does not call Jesus God. The tablet lists women honored by the church. The only reference to Jesus is in the lower right corner. There we find the Greek word “ichthys” (fish). It’s an acronym for Iesous Christos. Theou Yios Soter; Ιησουζ Χρισιοζ Θεου Υιοζ Σωτηρ. Translated, that’s “Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior”

In that light, the tablet does not call Jesus God. It names him as the son of God. Despite Trinitarian twisting of scripture, it limits Jesus’ station to that of son. Paul reminds us that the Father is Jesus' God, “the God and father of our lord Jesus.”

The Watchtower does not point to Constantine was the corrupter of Christianity in the sense that he was responsible for the Great Apostasy. They date its origin to late in the Apostolic Era, citing 2 Thess. 2:7. Mainline Protestants sometime date the Catholic Apostasy to Constantine’s day. What the Watchtower has claimed is that by an organizing council he founded “Christendom.”

27

BEROEAN PICKETS:- VIcky And Mike's Story. "Judged To Be Like The Antichrist "

by buzkid in

vicky and mike hobbs are ex jehovah’s witnesses and ex beroean pickets members their personal statements and experiences within the beroean pickets bible study groups wasn't pleasant.

and vicky was likened to the antichrist because of her differing views.

spiritual abuse is becoming more widespread and the purpose of this interview is to raise awareness, provide education around spiritual and religious abuse, and to keep the public safe.

vienne

Can we revert to the actual topic? Hijacking the thread is too common. If you need to pursue another issue, start a new thread or send a private message.