Posts by matt2414

5

Gay Jehovah's Witness Victims

by God_Delusion in

howdy guys and gals,.

ben, a fellow jehovah's witness blog.com author, wrote this great article - http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/jehovahs-witness-beliefs/gay-jehovahs-witness-victims/.

we would really appreciate it if you could tell us what you think about this subject and also let us know your personal experiences.. it's completely out of order the way this cult deals with homosexuals.

matt2414

If they are gay because they failed to mature past their early teens, the condition might correct itself without intervention. But if not, that's their choice. If it's because of genetics, exposure to poisons in pesticides and phude (including BPA and phthalates in plastic), or because of having parents that effectively beat being straight out of them, people should accept them like that.

... And if they are gay or bisexual because God designed and created them that way, just like he obviously designed and created hundreds, and perhaps even thousands, of animal and plant species, then gay haters need to be careful because they will only finds themselves "fighting against God.” Acts 5:39 NIV

9

Who did Jesus command to preach, the anointed or the great crowd?

by matt2414 in

when one becomes filled with the knowledge of the promised earthly paradise under christ's kingdom, one wants to share it with others.

it is good news!acts 5:41, 42.. doing this is an important way of showing that you are a disciple of jesus christ.

in the bible, jesus is called "the faithful and true witness.

matt2414

The other sheep should never forget that their salvation depends on their active support of Christ's anointed "brothers" still on earth. (Matt. 25:34-40) The anointed will enter into their reward, but the hope of the other sheep will just as certainly be fulfilled. (Read Hebrews 11:39, 40.) First, let us examine the hope set before the anointed.

This a gross twisting of the JW's own doctrine. Matt. 25:34-40 isn't referring to both the "other sheep" and anointed "brothers." In verse 34, Jesus directed his words to those on his right: "Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world." Christ then describes many ways they helped and slaved for him, so much so that they wonder when they could have possibly done all those things. He responds: "To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me." To fit in with JW dogma, it would be the anointed doing all the heavy lifting, such as preaching, on behalf of Christ's "brothers." The NWT refers to Matt 10:40-42, where the brothers seem to be called "little ones" and "disciples." Based on the JW's own Bible, it is the GB and other anointed who slave for the great crowd., not the other way around.

9

Who did Jesus command to preach, the anointed or the great crowd?

by matt2414 in

when one becomes filled with the knowledge of the promised earthly paradise under christ's kingdom, one wants to share it with others.

it is good news!acts 5:41, 42.. doing this is an important way of showing that you are a disciple of jesus christ.

in the bible, jesus is called "the faithful and true witness.

matt2414

When one becomes filled with the knowledge of the promised earthly Paradise under Christ's Kingdom, one wants to share it with others. You will too. It is good news!— Acts 5:41, 42 .

Doing this is an important way of showing that you are a disciple of Jesus Christ. In the Bible, Jesus is called "the faithful and true witness." When on earth he preached, saying: "The kingdom of the heavens has drawn near," and he sent out his disciples to do the same. ( Revelation 3:14 ; Matthew 4:17 ; 10:7 ) Later, Jesus commanded his followers: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, . . . teaching them." He also foretold that before the end, "this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations."— Matthew 24:14 ; 28:19, 20 .

An earlier thread got me thinking: The governing body has implied, suggested and taught that the majority of Jesus' promises in the New Testament, such as going to heaven, apply just to them and the other "anointed." If that's the case, wouldn't Jesus' command to preach and go door to door apply just to them, too? Also, if it's true that the anointed aren't all old and dead but still being called to be part of the 144,000 to this day -- as they recently expressed with new light -- why aren't they carrying the bulk of the preaching work instead of just doing "street witnessing" on occasion or pressuring the great crowd to do it? The governing body is much younger now, they can surely do more. They don't appoint any of the "great crowd" to become members of their elite body, so why would they delegate their main responsiblity as preachers to mere, lowly members of the great crowd? It doesn't make sense.

16

UK Gay Marriage 2015! :)

by TimothyT in

there is a huge debate going on about it now between governments and religions.

i say bring it on.

i wonder what the jw stance on this issue is!

matt2414

Nic, that's a really good question. But I think some gay people who have faith in Christ and want to be accepted by a church are just like straight people. They may have been raised in religion or seek validation that someone higher loves them and made them the way they are. Although I'm gay, I'm not sure what I believe anymore. That's why I ask a lot of sincere questions and listen to the answers. I do not believe I know it all.

On the other hand, I don't see the "clear homophobia" in the Bible you talk about. At one time, people said the Bible was anti-black. Later, they said the Bible condemns mixed marriages. Others have said the Bible denegrates women. So this is what I did. I stopped listening to the voices of religious leaders and their followers, I ignored the traditions of the people of Bible times, and just focused on Jesus. It was then I realized that Jesus never put down women; he didn't insult prostitutes or those who were suffering from women's health problems. He got along with women great, and he trusted them more than some men, and they trusted him. (He appeared to women first, after his resurrection.) I also saw that he never used racism in his comments, although it was common at the time. For example, he never ridiculed Samaritans or gentiles like some of his Jewish opponents did, or as historians tell us was common at the time. (John 8:48: Jewish opponents attempted to insult Jesus by saying he was a "Samaritan and demon-possessed." Jesus denied being demon-possessed while ignoring the comment about being a Samaritan, not lowering himself to their level.) He was kind to lepers, something that was unheard of at the time. Also, he never criticized gays or lesbians, even though they surely existed. He doesn't even mention them; it wasn't an issue with him. When he said God loved the world, he meant everybody. John 3:16.

It seems that the Bible can act as a mirror. People who see hate in there, are really seeing what's in their own hearts, or at least in the heart of the person preaching to them at their church. That's my opinion, but I'm not sure what I believe anymore. But I do find it all very fascinating though.

16

UK Gay Marriage 2015! :)

by TimothyT in

there is a huge debate going on about it now between governments and religions.

i say bring it on.

i wonder what the jw stance on this issue is!

matt2414

I realize that many people like to use this expression "Adam and Eve not Adam & Steve," but if you step back and analyze what you are saying, you'll find that that is a very hollow argument for expressing hate toward fellow humans, children of God. That thinking raises several uncomfortable questions that many so-called Christians find difficult to answer.

Example 1: Who created homosexuality and homosexuals? Is there another creator that the Bible doesn't speak of? Does God share the creation of humans with Satan? Homosexuals are here and they had to come from somewhere. Where? By the way, the animals came before man, so who made hundreds, if not thousands, of species them homosexual? They didn't sin, not are they influenced by human culture, so where did they come from. If you marvel at the animals and animal instinct, do you despise the homosexual aspect even though it's obvious this "design" came from God?

Example 2: If you are thinking that homosexuality is a choice, then, at what age did you decide to become heterosexual? How do you suppress your longing and, yes, lusting after others of the same sex in order to live your life as a heterosexual? You see, if it's a choice, it must be present in all human. Why would "gift" of sexual choice just be present in a few. If it's a choice, why is it that many homosexuals realize they are different before ever experiencing sex or even knowing what it is? If you think it is learned, then why do some people who live in areas not exposed to homosexuality, indoctrinated by heterosexuality, told they would be disfellowshipped if they became homosexual, preached that God would hate/not give them privileges/kill them if they turned gay, still come out as gay? Why do a large number of children of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon's come out as gay, if they were raised in households following their church's tenets and their fathers are elders? If it's a choice, how is it that when blindfolded, gays are aroused by the pheromones of the same sex, while straights are aroused by the pheromones of the opposite sex? If sexual orientation is set at an early age, how can God hold people responsible for something that has been all but hard-wired into them?

Example 3: Just because God created heterosexuals, remember, the woman came from the man, not from the ground as Adam was. She was part man, according to the Bible. So regardless of sexual orientation, humans are compatible. If God only created two humans in the beginning, is it logical that he would create two homosexuals to populate the earth? Is it logical or befitting of a student of the Bible to even use this argument? If you think so, then answer this: Where were the Africans, Anglos, Asians, Hispanics and others during creation? With just two people, where were the green-eyed, blue-eyed, brown-eyed, and dark-eyed people? Straight-haired, curly-haired, wavy-haired, and nappy-haired people? Where were the tall, short, dwarf and average height people? How about gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender individuals? In other words, you couldn't possibly have everyone there if there were only two people and, really, only one person (Adam) to start with. So to say that God disapproves of gays because none were in the Garden of Eden is to say that he also disapproves of everone else that wasn't represented either. However, we're all here today and that's what matters. If you believe in God, it looks like he wanted all this variety. Who are we to speak for him and suggest otherwise. Isn't that "going beyond what is written?"

Example 4: Some have ignorantly suggested that sexual urges toward those of the same sex is the same as alcoholism or drug addiction. Really? Did God put the desire and urges for alcohol in humans when he created them? Did he put the desire/urges for drugs in humans when he designed them? Did he put the desire for food in humans when he created them? Did he put sexual urges in humans when he made them? If you believe in God, you cannot answer No to all these questions, therefore, the argument is flawed and weak. Desire for food and sex are natural and we need them for survival as a species. So to tell gay to stop their urges is to tell them to quit living, and go against a desire that God put in each one of us.

These are just a few examples of questions that anti-gay people should be able to answer before they attempt to speak for God, putting words in his mouth, saying that he hates gays or they need to change who they are.

12

What does the Bible really say about abortion?

by matt2414 in

during the current election campaigns for president in the united states, women's health care and reproductive rights have been targeted by conservative candidates in an effort to appeal to evangelicals and religious extremists.

keeping in mind that in the u.s. a pregnancy can be legally terminated as long as the embryo or fetus is not considered potentially viable (not able to survive on its own or with artificial aid) outside the womb, what does the bible say about abortion?

are the arguments of jehovah's witnesses and other religious fundamentalists sound in this regard?.

matt2414

“And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. 23 But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for sou l." Exodus 21:22-23 NWT

" If some men are fighting and hurt a pregnant woman so that she loses her child, but she is not injured in any other way, the one who hurt her is to be fined whatever amount the woman's husband demands, subject to the approval of the judges. But if the woman herself is injured, the punishment shall be life for life." Good News Bible

“If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [ e -"miscarriage"] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life." NIV

Band on the Run, that was the most clear and concise response I've read on this issue in a long time. That makes perfect sense, and explains why the Bible is silent on this matter.

Above I copied Exodus 21:22-23 that the Witnesses' "Reasoning" book uses as proof that God prohibits abortions. But comparing it with the Good News Bible, the NIV and other translations I find that the Witnesses seem to have deviated from what the others say. Some translations indicate that if the woman gets hurt and miscarries but is not injured in any other way, the husband can only ask for damages, even if the embryo/fetus dies. It is only if the woman dies, can the husband demand life for life.

The Witness Bible renders the verse differently, saying that if a man were to " hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs," then there will be just a fine. They include the woman and the unborn child in the fatal accident. They also claim that the children who "do come out" are born alive and not miscarried as some translations say. That would also mean that if a "fatal accident" did occur to either the woman or the unborn child, a life for life penalty would be imposed on the man who hurt the woman or the baby.

Now here's the flaw in their reasoning: If a baby were to be born -- albeit prematurely -- because of the struggle and did survive, that would mean that the woman was already near her due date to giving birth. You see in Bible times the technology and know-how to keep an extremely premature baby alive did not exist. Therefore, a baby who is born after a struggle and where "no fatal accident occurs" was likely going to be born soon anyway. That's basically the secular law on abortion today. It is against the law to abort any baby that can survive on it's own, even with medical equipment, outside the mother. In other words, this verse (according to the NWT) is not discussing an abortion, the type of which are legally performed today during the earlier weeks and months of a pregnancy, but rather, the death of an unborn child that was far enough along that it could have survived on its own outside the mother. Therefore, it is inappropriate and a gross twisting of the scriptures to use this verse, even in the NWT, in the modern-day abortion debate.

Is it just me, or do the men who are leading the Witnesses need to clarify this mistake, apologize to their congregations and then humble themselves before God and beg for mercy for having sacraligiously twisted God's word for so long? I'm just saying.

16

UK Gay Marriage 2015! :)

by TimothyT in

there is a huge debate going on about it now between governments and religions.

i say bring it on.

i wonder what the jw stance on this issue is!

matt2414

That's awesome! 25 years! Congratulations. You and your wife are an example for all couples, straight and gay.

12

What does the Bible really say about abortion?

by matt2414 in

during the current election campaigns for president in the united states, women's health care and reproductive rights have been targeted by conservative candidates in an effort to appeal to evangelicals and religious extremists.

keeping in mind that in the u.s. a pregnancy can be legally terminated as long as the embryo or fetus is not considered potentially viable (not able to survive on its own or with artificial aid) outside the womb, what does the bible say about abortion?

are the arguments of jehovah's witnesses and other religious fundamentalists sound in this regard?.

matt2414

"Because it contains timeless truths passed on to us from the creator of humans. . . if he created us, he should know what's best for us!"

Lore, if the statement above is true, that would mean we would all have to know the Bible very well for it to be of any benefit to us. If people ignorantly pick and choose what they are going to believe, or don't try to understand the knowledge that God has that's "best for us," not one person can be benefited. We'd all be applying it in different ways according to our own agendas. That's why I requested Bible texts on abortion, to see if I am missing something that Bible fundamentalists may have discovered in the scriptures that says it's wrong. But alas, not one Bible text has emerged on this thread.

I mean, why would God forbid abortions, and then sanction what happened at 2 Kings 2:23, where boys taunted Elisha by saying, "Go up, you bald head." Because of their jeers, Elisha cursed them and two female bears came out of the woods and slaughtered 42 boys. I can't for the life of me understand on what grounds any sane entity would murder young people for their taunts. They could have told him to go f*** himself, and it still would not be grounds. It is inexecusable what happened to them. Why, even Jehovah's Witnesses indirectly blast Elisha when they claim that even murderers can become Christians with a home Bible study. Why couldn't these boys have been helped and rehabilitated?

I'm not sure I still believe the Bible, but it sure is a good read.

12

What does the Bible really say about abortion?

by matt2414 in

during the current election campaigns for president in the united states, women's health care and reproductive rights have been targeted by conservative candidates in an effort to appeal to evangelicals and religious extremists.

keeping in mind that in the u.s. a pregnancy can be legally terminated as long as the embryo or fetus is not considered potentially viable (not able to survive on its own or with artificial aid) outside the womb, what does the bible say about abortion?

are the arguments of jehovah's witnesses and other religious fundamentalists sound in this regard?.

matt2414

"The same book advocates parents stoning their own children to death for cursing them, for crying out loud!

The same book authorizes constant sliting of the throat of animals and splattering their blood about an altar just so that a tribal deity can be appeased!?!"

This is so true. The "Reasoning" book says that abortion is wrong because God values life. Really? Which God is that? The one that does the aforementioned things? The God who -- according to the Witnesses -- will slaughter every human off the face of the earth with the exception of a handful of Witnesses? And according some you speak to, even some of them won't survive.

I like to use Bible texts in my arguments, because that's the only thing that some people will listen to. But oftentimes, these people don't even have a leg -- or a scripture -- to stand on.

16

UK Gay Marriage 2015! :)

by TimothyT in

there is a huge debate going on about it now between governments and religions.

i say bring it on.

i wonder what the jw stance on this issue is!

matt2414

If God didn't want gay marriage, he wouldn't have created homosexuals in the first place ... and he certainly would have made an outright law banning gay marriage, without extremists creating "ransom-note" scriptures, by taking a few words from one scripture and a few from another, pasting it all together until they have something they claim is from God saying that gays are evil. Talk about blasphemy.