All I can say is that I have been on the Net with my real indentity for 7 years now and nothing even resembling bad has ever happened because of it. I think many take this privacy and secret identity much too far.
Norm.
Posts by Norm
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34Mass 'coming out': Revealing Our Identities
by philo inon a the exmormon board i started a topic about fear of the organisation (link below).
'stumped' put up this idea.... in america, founded on freedom, folks are afraid to discuss their church.
it's loterally scary.. anybody wanna take a challenge tostate their name, address, phone number.
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Christendom's gone get it!
by Norm inmany who suffer from a inferiority complex find ways to compensate for their real or imagined inferiority.
apparently even organizations suffer from such deficiencies.
the watchtower society being a tiny and insignificant entity in a sea of huge and mighty churches try their best to compensate by heaping scorn and condemnations on their competition which they have lumped together under the name christendom, which stand of all that is detestable and filthy.
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Norm
Many who suffer from a inferiority complex find ways to compensate for their real or imagined inferiority. Apparently even organizations suffer from such deficiencies. The Watchtower Society being a tiny and insignificant entity in a sea of huge and mighty churches try their best to compensate by heaping scorn and condemnations on their “competition” which they have lumped together under the name “Christendom”, which stand of all that is detestable and filthy. In true Christian style everybody who doesn’t agree with their particular brand of superstition deserve only death and destruction for being “false” Christians.
Let us look at some examples of real “true Christian compassion” for those who dare disagree with you:
*** w79 9/15 28 The "Cup" That All Nations Must Drink at God's Hand ***
28 For mere selfish reasons those political “shepherds” and “majestic ones” will “howl,” yes, roll about on the ground. As the Sovereign Lord Jehovah calls them to account during the “great tribulation,” they will grimly realize that the day has come for them to be slaughtered and scattered.*** w88 1/15 14 Jehovah-Our Strength ***
As the foremost part of “Babylon the Great”—the world empire of false religion—Christendom’s religion in particular has been weighed in divine balances and found woefully wanting. It is doomed!Isn’t it amazing how much they “KNOW” about what awaits “Christendom” in Brooklyn?
They are doomed to slaughter! How very nice! What a convincing display of the fine qualities of compassion and humility of the part of the Watchtower Society!*** w80 2/1 28 Serve the "King of the Nations" and Survive ***
To this very day they have been courageously acting world wide at the side of the Jeremiah class, proclaiming the doom of Christendom and of the world empire of false religion, Babylon the Great. They are encouraging people of all kinds to desert this doomed system of things and to take a firm stand on the side of Jehovah’s executional forces under the command of a general greater than Nebuchadnezzar, namely, Jesus Christ. Thus they prove that they have put their full trust in Jehovah, “King of the nations.”*** w91 5/1 14 Become United by the Pure Language ***
16 Just as it was Jehovah’s statute that Judah and Jerusalem should be wiped out, so Christendom must perish. Indeed, the destruction of all false religion is near, and those wishing to survive must act immediately.*** w88 9/15 15 Listen-Jehovah's Watchman Speaks! ***
Because Christendom claims to be in a covenant with God but puts confidence in worldly alliances, she will perish under assault by Jehovah’s executional forces.*** w87 1/1 30 "Gather Yourselves Together" ***
Likewise today, apostate Christendom is about to perish in “a great crash,” along with the entire world empire of false religion.*** w93 5/1 22 Deliverance at the Revelation of Jesus Christ ***
Similarly today, opposition to the peace-loving Witnesses of Jehovah has often been instigated by those who claim to represent God, in particular the clergy of Christendom. These pretend to know God, but they reject the “one Jehovah” of the Bible, replacing him with a mystic Trinity. (Mark 12:29) They do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus, looking to man-rule for relief and rejecting the good news of Christ’s incoming Kingdom of righteousness. All these religious opposers must perish at the time of “the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven”!Brooklyn has a very touching reverence for their great general and chief executioner Jesus Christ, which is going to wade through Christendom like Rambo and slay all the Trinitarian scum, who don’t “KNOW” God like they do in Brooklyn.
*** w97 5/1 22 Messengers of Godly Peace Pronounced Happy ***
15 Things are worse because, as we learned in the previous articles, Christendom and all other false religions will soon be destroyed, as completely as was Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.*** w91 6/1 18 Their Refuge-A Lie! ***
Jehovah’s judgments are unchangeably recorded in his Word the Bible. Christendom, along with all other false religion, will be destroyed.*** w91 6/1 23 Keep Warning of Jehovah's Unusual Work ***
Religious Christendom will be burned and destroyed along with all other false religions. This will be Jehovah’s strange deed, his unusual work for our day.*** w91 8/15 28 Do You Remember? ***
The warning at Revelation 17:16 shows that Babylon the Great’s political paramours will one day turn on her. As a result, Christendom will be completely destroyed along with all the other false religions.*** w91 6/1 15 The Spiritual Drunkards-Who Are They? ***
Soon, Jehovah will carry into effect his “command upon command, measuring line upon measuring line,” and the result will be catastrophic for Christendom. Her religious leaders and their flocks will “be broken and ensnared and caught.” Yes, like Jerusalem of old, Christendom’s religious systems will be utterly destroyed. What a shocking, unexpected development that will be! And what a frightful outcome because the clergy prefer spiritual drunkenness to Jehovah’s reminders!As we can observe the slaughter of Christendom is going to happen “SOON”. That should of course come as a great relief to all “true” students of the Bible, as the biblical “soon” means thousands of years, so there is obviously no need for panic just yet. But of course time is short so get out of Christendom right now folks, who would want to wallow around in the spiritual mud with the spiritual drunk clergy?
Get out of her folks!!
Norm.
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The dim people
by Norm inthe dim people.
the new world society.
the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.
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Norm
Hi TeeJay,
The ”you” means anyone who believe in God.
You said:
You've lost me. If god showed up I'd think that even more would believe in him rather than the other way around. Unless you mean something like instead of "believe" they would "know" but that's only a play with words, imo. If I didn't believe in the Great Wall of China and someone showed me a picture of it, I'd start to believe. Or know.
You don’t have to believe in something you can observe. When you have seen or touched the great wall of China, you don’t believe in its existence anymore, you know it exist. Faith or belief only comes in when something can’t be observed or documented. You might believe that an athlete will be able to run the 100m in 7 seconds, you might have faith in him. If the athlete indeed run the 100m dash in 7 seconds you don’t have to believe it anymore, you KNOW he did it.
Hope this clears it up.
Do a search on logic on the net and you will find a lot of material.
I think that most universities and other places of learning offer courses and such on logic. Take a look at this:
http://www.kzoo.edu/phil/420.html
Norm
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6
How to make a false prophecy
by Norm inwhat happened with the 6000 years?.
jehovah's witnesses are generally very ignorant about the watchtower society history.
most of them would benefit greatly from reading older issues of the watchtower and other literature published by the society in earlier years.
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Norm
What happened with the 6000 years?
Jehovah's Witnesses are generally very ignorant about the Watchtower Society history. Most of them would benefit greatly from reading older issues of the Watchtower and other literature published by the Society in earlier years.
Those of us that were around before and after 1975, remember the Brooklyn song and dance about 6000 years since Adam’s creation would run out in 1975. There was much excitement about this because it would fit SO well into the Freddie Franz “chronology” about how “fitting” it would be for the big A to come in 75. This article from 1968 really got the Witness community going:*** w68 5/1 271 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
3 Hence, outside the Bible’s timetable, most dates set by historians are unreliable. Only a few “assured,” or absolute, dates, such as 539 B.C.E., can be accepted as certain. Christians, confident in Jehovah’s Word, know that the internal evidence of the Bible is the safest guide in these matters. This helps us to determine with great accuracy where we stand in the stream of time, particularly in regard to the seventh period of time, or “day,” mentioned in Genesis.—Gen. 2:2, 3.Notice this line here: “This helps us to determine with great accuracy where we stand in the stream of time,” Quite hilarious isn’t it? If there is anything the Watchtower Society has established as “gospel truth” up through that organizations history, it is their total inability to determine anything, let alone with “great accuracy”! But it gets funnier still. Take a look at this rather amusing reasoning. The determining factor to be able to predict if Armageddon would come in 1975, was how long time Adam used to name the animals, and how long it took for him to realize that he was “alone” and needed a mate. But with the efficiency of God, it wasn’t likely to take more than a “few weeks or months” in the same year:
*** w68 5/1 271 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
4 According to reliable Bible chronology Adam was created in the year 4026 B.C.E., likely in the autumn of the year, at the end of the sixth day of creation. Then God brought the animals to man to name. Yet, of Adam, Genesis states these words of Jehovah: “It is not good for the man to continue by himself.” (Gen. 2:18) Adam would realize this lonely condition very quickly, perhaps in just a few days or a few weeks. He would realize he needed another earthling with whom he could communicate, share his experiences, and his life. Nor would his naming the animals take an unduly long time. The basic animal kinds could have been relatively quickly named, for when such basic kinds were taken into the ark in Noah’s day, it did not involve millions of beasts, but perhaps only a few hundred basic kinds. Thus, Adam’s naming of the animals and his realizing that he needed a counterpart would have occupied only a brief time after his creation. Since it was also Jehovah’s purpose for man to multiply and fill the earth, it is logical that he would create Eve soon after Adam, perhaps just a few weeks or months later in the same year, 4026 B.C.E.So here we get a good insight into the insane ramblings of Fred Franz, the Society’s big spiritual leader and writer since Booze Rutherford kicked the bucket. Take a look at this where he is thinking out loud:
*** w68 5/1 271 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
5 Therefore, God’s seventh day and the time man has been on earth apparently run parallel. To calculate where man is in the stream of time relative to God’s seventh day of 7,000 years, we need to determine how long a time has elapsed from the year of Adam and Eve’s creation in 4026 B.C.E. From the autumn of that year to the autumn of 1 B.C.E., there would be 4,025 years. From the autumn of 1 B.C.E. to the autumn of 1 C.E. is one year (there was no zero year). From the autumn of 1 C.E. to the autumn of 1967 is a total of 1,966 years. Adding 4,025 and 1 and 1,966, we get 5,992 years from the autumn of 4026 B.C.E. to the autumn of 1967. Thus, eight years remain to account for a full 6,000 years of the seventh day. Eight years from the autumn of 1967 would bring us to the autumn of 1975, fully 6,000 years into God’s seventh day, his rest day.This article sent the whole Witness community into a fewer pitch and the matter was addressed again the same year. This next quote mention that “lively discussions, some based on speculations, have burst into flame during recent months”. The quote also identify the reason for all these “speculations”:
*** w68 8/15 494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
WHAT about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam’s creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion.Then, after this opening the article state the following:
*** w68 8/15 494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
2 But wait! How do we know their calculations are correct? What basis is there for saying Adam was created nearly 5,993 years ago? Does the one Book that can be implicitly trusted for its truthful historical accuracy, namely, the Inspired Word of Jehovah, the Holy Bible, give support and credence to such a conclusion?
Then follows several pages with the most incredible insane, long-winded, twisted, hopeless and far-fetched arithmetic, ever put together. After having totally anesthetized the reader with all this mind numbing tripe, the article state:*** w68 8/15 500-1 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent.You should all whip out this issue of the Watchtower magazine and enjoy this genuine piece of true Watchtower insanity in full flight. Feast your eyes on this incredible reasoning. This is precisely the same kind of number juggling that has been around in the Watchtower Society for so long and has cost them so much embarrassment up through the years. Then of course Franz would throw in the well-tried and tested old prune, the 1914-generation, another embarrassing example of the Watchtower “Bible Chronology” crap that hit the fan in 1995:
*** w68 5/1 272 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
Some of the generation that discerned the beginning of the time of the end in 1914 will still be alive on earth to witness the end of this present wicked system of things at the battle of Armageddon.—Rev. 16:14, 16.Here we again get to watch Franz wallow in wishful thinking and hallucinating in a big way. Yes, how “fitting” it would be if the 1000 year reign could start in 1975:
*** w68 5/1 272 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
7 The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these “last days” will undergo fulfillment, resulting in the liberation of surviving mankind into Christ’s glorious 1,000-year reign. What difficult days, but, at the same time, what grand days are just ahead!Then, a little bit of prudence seeps in, “ahumm, well of course no one knows for sure, you
know”. But mind you, it would be very “foolish” with the “limited time remaining” of course. Yes sure, but not anywhere near as foolish as those listening to the drivel in the Watchtower magazine. And of course those who continue to listen to them.*** w68 5/1 272-3 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
8 Does this mean that the year 1975 will bring the battle of Armageddon? No one can say with certainty what any particular year will bring. Jesus said: “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows.” (Mark 13:32) Sufficient is it for God’s servants to know for a certainty that, for this system under Satan, time is running out rapidly. How foolish a person would be not to be awake and alert to the limited time remaining, to the earthshaking events soon to take place, and to the need to work out one’s salvation!Notice how the Watchtower quote Mark 13: 32, in this issue. But only a few moths later the same year, the frenzy got the better of them and they didn’t want to be fobbed off with such silly quotes from the Bible:
*** w68 8/15 500-1 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!Not only the Watchtower Society and Fred Franz was keenly aware of the imminence of Armageddon, one of the Watchtower Society’s favorites and a person of great importance to all “true” Christians was also aware of the limited time left:
*** w68 5/1 274 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
13 Satan the Devil also knows that the time left is very reduced. Revelation 12:12 states: “The Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.” Satan the Devil has a real problem where time is concerned. He has very little left. What he would not give to have more time to work out his debased purposes! But he does not, and so is furious.
Isn’t it really funny to read this drivel, written 32 years ago? Open a recent Watchtower and read exactly the same drivel about “living in the final years of this system”. It is incredible how they seem totally unable to change anything in Brooklyn. This seem to be the only “record” they own, and they play it over and over again:*** w68 5/1 274 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
By measuring and calculating time, we know we are living in the final years of this system of things. It is crumbling before our very eyes in one orgy of violence and crime after another. Minute by minute, day by day, year by year it moves without fail toward its catastrophic end. There is no going backward for this system. How true,
then, in our day, what Paul stated at 1 Corinthians 7:29: “Moreover, this I say, brothers, the time left is reduced.” It is especially reduced in our day, as we are near the end of 6,000 years of human history.The next quote tell us that the apostles didn’t know about 1975, well as it turned out the Watchtower Society didn’t know anything about 1975 either. Just as little as they know about anything else. Like the apostles who had their own period of frenzy, also had the same experience, absolutely nothing happened. Did they learn anything from it? Nope, nothing, nada! So all of you Watchtower followers, heed the call, no delaying or dilly dallying, go out there and spread the Watchtower literature like there’s no tomorrow, because to you there is no tomorrow, to you it is forever “ground hog day”:
*** w68 8/15 501 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
36 Even if one cannot see beyond 1975, is this any reason to be less active? The apostles could not see even this far; they knew nothing about 1975. All they could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them. (1 Pet. 4:7) Hence, there was a ring of alarm and a cry of urgency in all their writings. (Acts 20:20; 2 Tim. 4:2) And rightly so. If they had delayed or dillydallied and had been complacent with the idea the end was some thousands of years off they would never have finished running the race set before them. No, they ran hard and they ran fast, and they won! It was a life or death matter with them.—1 Cor. 9:24; 2 Tim. 4:7; Heb. 12:1.*** w68 5/1 275 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
The more time they spend working with Jehovah’s visible organization, the less time they will have left to get into difficulty.The more time they spend in “Jehovah's organization” the less time they will have to have a life. Of course the 6000 years since the creation of Adam, hasn’t been heard of the last 25 years. The elaborate example of this “accurate Biblical chronology” which was “proved” by calculations and twisted ”reasoning” which took several pages to “explain” is totally forgotten in Brooklyn and by the Witness community. In the next 50 years, the rest of the completely nonsensical Watchtower “chronology” will go the same way, but the “end” will of course always be “imminent”! Millions of Witnesses will have wasted their lives chasing this Bible/Watchtower “rainbow”.
Norm.
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Official WT Report?
by nicolaou inthe following report was sent to me anonymously.
it's huge!.
at over 30,000 words and 68 pages it's a lot to take in.
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Norm
It looks like the publication, Branch Office Procedure" which there is supposed to be only one copy of in each branch office.
Norm.
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65
The dim people
by Norm inthe dim people.
the new world society.
the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.
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Norm
Ello TeeJay,
You said:
Many of the bigger problems of life must be solved by using more than one methodology. In other words, perhaps determining the existence of god requires more than just logic.
Just a thought.
peace,
toddThe existence of God requires faith, pure and simple. You believe that God exist and that's that. If you knew that God existed you could produce observable, testable evidence for it and faith would no longer be neccessary. If God showed up and presented himself to us, no one would BELIEVE in him anymore. Right?
Norm.
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The GOOD old days!
by Norm inbeing parents, as we know isnt a very easy job for anyone.
for jehovah's witnesses it is even more difficult.
there is so much devilish hereditary tendencies that you have to beat out of your children.
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Norm
Being parents, as we know isn’t a very easy job for anyone. For Jehovah's Witnesses it is even more difficult. There is so much “devilish hereditary tendencies” that you have to beat out of your children. But there is always a lot of good advice coming from the “channel of communication” in the form of “meat in due season” Take a look at this:
*** w60 2/1 80 Mildness and Self-Control Yield Peaceable Fruitage *** 16 Now you children, and this also includes all you teen-agers, have in mind that this discipline prescribed by Jehovah is medicine for your good, because disobedience, stubbornness and fits of anger are the ways of sin and death, and they are bound up in your heart from your very birth. It you want to live under God’s kingdom rule, these devilish hereditary tendencies must be forcefully rooted out and supplanted with godly qualities, and the parental rod of correction will help to do this. “Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him.”—Prov. 22:15.
Unfortunately the world we live in today with democracy and human rights and such soft, leftist, liberal, atheist, pinko, commie subversive thoughts being sneaked into society for many years have prevented moral and upstanding true Christians from beating their children into pulp. Imagine living back in the good old “theocratic” days when you could have your children terminated after a quick séance in the City gate? That was the times:
*** w60 2/1 80 Mildness and Self-Control Yield Peaceable Fruitage ***17 There may be rare instances where a child is so hardened in its stubbornness that even the rod of correction cannot drive it out. In the days of Israel parents were instructed by Jehovah to take such a rebel to the city fathers and they, in turn, took the incorrigible one out and stoned him to death. There were no juvenile delinquents under such a system. (Deut. 21:18-21) So also today, the New World society of Jehovah’s witnesses can not and will not tolerate juvenile delinquency to exist in its midst. So, to avoid a possible death-dealing blow by being disfellowshiped from the congregation, wise theocratic children give heed to and follow what God’s Word says: “Children, be obedient to your parents in union with the Lord, for this is righteous.” “You children, be obedient to your parents in everything [this leaves nothing out], for this is well-pleasing in the Lord.
Unfortunately, because of the liberal, humanist, atheists and such dregs the only true Christians today have to employ a more subtle method of breaking the spirit of their children. If you can’t kill them, you can at least make their lives as miserable as possible, by giving them a “death dealing blow” by disfellowshiping. How wonderful and loving, Jehovah’s organization is!
Norm.
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65
The dim people
by Norm inthe dim people.
the new world society.
the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.
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Norm
Hello Amos,
You said:
Norm, I think I said that when you have a mindset (not specifically religious people), then logic, reasoning won't work. Sorry if I wasn't sensitive enough to your anger and how you are still feeling. Is it possible that instead of the brainwashed Jdubs being the dim witted, it is really individuals who are - whatever labels you gave them - prior to being brainwashed. After all, would a sensible, logical person fall for that stuff. I had no choice - I was raised in it and can plead (?) ignorance. However their message is very appealing to people who are very vulnerable to predators. Once one is brainwashed are we then not just victim blaming?
People might have all kinds of reasons for being and behaving like idiots. When people are born into or conned into an organization like the Watchtower Society it doesn’t free them from personal responsibility. I think that most people who aren’t in some way damaged through pregnancy and birth are born with the ability for reason and logic.
Unfortunately already as children far to many are exposed to superstition and fairy tales which they can observe a lot of adults take very serious, thus their thinking skills are already seriously damaged when reaching adulthood. Unfortunately children can’t choose their parents, and when parents are deeply superstitious, they of course do all they can to make their children perpetuate the nonsense. This of course is very bad luck for the child. It isn’t very fortunate to be born a child of fundamentalist parents, be that Moslem, Christian or Jewish. Still, the children can’t be excused concerning their own behaviour. If they choose to continue the legacy of idiocy they got from their parents, they can be pitied, we can understand why, but they can’t be excused.
Norm.
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A Chinese Meal with Fred Franz
by VM44 innear the beginning of the book, "the orwellian world of jehovah's.
witnesses," one of the authors gives a personal experience where.
he and others were treated by fred franz to a meal at a chinese.
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Norm
Hi Kismet,
Among other things you said:
This might explain one of the reasons I am bothered when I see the personal attacks made against individuals. I knew these people and saw their good sides too.
All people have good sides Kismet, even those who we consider monsters like Hitler and Stalin, was very loving and caring towards friends family and usually their children. A couple of years ago, a big national newspaper had an interview with the daughter of the Chief of Gestapo in occupied Norway, where she naturally remembered her father with great fondness. This caused a storm from the relatives of those who were tortured and executed on his orders. They of course was greatly disturbed by getting their images of a monster destroyed in such a way. You don’t even have to be particularly or even personally evil to commit the most hideous crimes.
It is enough that you are committed to a CAUSE. Once you are convinced that the CAUSE are more important than yourself and everything else, it is just a matter of coincidence what horrible atrocities you will commit.It is easier to hate an unseen enemy.
KismetNot on the scale or magnitude of the Nazi’s of course but Franz was no doubt responsible for a lot of problems among the Witness community with his 1975 nonsense. As a prominent leader in the Watchtower Society he was also responsible for shaping and forming the policy that leads to covering up child abuse and the “blood” policy which has caused the untimely death of many Witnesses. Franz and many of the other Watchtower leaders may even have thought, and those alive may still think that they are doing people a favour. Personally I don’t hate any of those people, I consider them examples of how tragic it gets when you succumb to Biblical superstition. Then again, I don’t have any problems understanding those who do HATE these men. Many people have every reason to do so. Anyone who’s life is ruined because of having lost a loved one, or is being shunned by his entire family and social network on the order of these men have every right to hate them.
Norm
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The dim people
by Norm inthe dim people.
the new world society.
the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.
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Norm
TeeJay,
You said:
To me it means (among other things) that in the matter of the existence of god logicians seem to omit from the equation what possibly exists but is as yet unknown.
Even the Bible say that you can’t count what is missing. Logic doesn’t concern itself with the unknown, if it did it wouldn’t be logic. This should be quite obvious, TeeJay.
Jan made a pretty clear explanation of logic in his post, he said:“Logic is distinguished from opinion by not being arbitrary and subjective.”
Then you said:
That may be true for many who strictly adhere to logical thought, but even for them, there may, I say MAY exist evidence beyond puny man's ability to register at this point in time. Who is to say what presently existing evidence that is beyond our scope, may one day become measurable, making present "logical" viewpoints of god obsolete.
Again, what MAY exist is in the realm of faith, NOT logic. Your arguments is very similar to arguments used by Jehovah's Witnesses when they are confronted with evidence that Jerusalem didn’t fall in 607 BCE. Then they claim that yet uncovered archaeological evidence will no doubt prove the 607 date correct in the future. How LOGIC do you think that kind of reasoning is?
Norm