Socrateswannabe

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Posts by Socrateswannabe

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  74

  The Watchtower's Real Crisis

  by JeffT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when discussing the watchtowers financial problems, i've generally been of the opinion that they probably are not in a real financial crisis.

  i've come to believe that money may be something of an issue, but its wrapped up in a much larger problem.

  this came to me this morning when reading about the annual meeting.. i think the society's leadership is just plain out of ideas.

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  Socrateswannabe

  As other large printing businesses have done, they have recognized that their business model must change. Printed publications, in all markets, have been shrinking for two decades. It makes sense for them to move toward digital delivery of their content. However, it requires a massive investment in infrastructure to do so. They are also dumping many, many millions into video production. For the Borg, this is a good investment. If you watch their content, you can see that the videos paint them almost as a mainstream, or at least as a charismatic-type religion, not as a nutter group.

  The problem that they have run into is that there is less perceived value to a video or a PDF document than there is for a printed publication. I would guess that the number of contributions that publishers receive in the door to door work is just about zero. That means their source of revenue is coming from their members only, not the public. Their own policies are creating a catch-22, though, since they discourage their members from education that would provide them with good paying jobs. And, speaking of good paying jobs, they discourage that too. Not much of an economic pool to drain for contributions, if you ask me.
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  29

  Relaxed rules toward oral sex?

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  these people won't state anything definitively, but here's an excerpt from the study article entitled "making christian marriage a success", in the august, 2016 watchtower.

  it does make me wonder.. although the bible does not provide specific rules about the kinds and limits of love play that might be associated with natural, sexual intimacy, it mentions displays of affection.

  (song of solomon 1:2; 2:6) christian marriage partners should treat each other with tenderness.

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  Socrateswannabe

  These people won't state anything definitively, but here's an excerpt from the study article entitled "Making Christian Marriage a Success", in the August, 2016 Watchtower. It does make me wonder.

  Although the Bible does not provide specific rules about the kinds and limits of love play that might be associated with natural, sexual intimacy, it mentions displays of affection. (Song of Solomon 1:2; 2:6) Christian marriage partners should treat each other with tenderness. (Italics mine)

  Does this indicate a softening of their antiquated view of oral sex?
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  79

  WT Flip-Flops on Jesus’ Inspection… Was it in 1918 or 1919?... Did the WT PASS or FAIL?

  by Alfred in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is utterly ridiculous.... .

  the more i research this particular subject, the more flip-flops i uncover.

  it seems the fds cant even make up their minds regarding what happened in 1918 (or should i say 1919?).

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  Socrateswannabe

  I am impressed that ex-JWs know far more about JW doctrine than active JWs know. Well done!
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  16

  Argument for JDubs or any Fundi's

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses believe:.

  1. man was created in 4026 bce.

  2. a global flood occurred in 2370 bce.

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  Socrateswannabe

  Punkofnice: Although they now admit that earth is millions of years old, they still believe that man and other living things are only 6,000 years old. So I guess god made the earth, let it sit there for millions of years, and then finally decided to do something with it. I'm pretty sure these are valid dates in JW world.
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  16

  Argument for JDubs or any Fundi's

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses believe:.

  1. man was created in 4026 bce.

  2. a global flood occurred in 2370 bce.

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  Socrateswannabe

  Jehovah's Witnesses believe:

  1. Man was created in 4026 BCE

  2. A global flood occurred in 2370 BCE

  3. The Israelite’s wandering in the Wilderness began in 1513 BCE

  Witnesses believe at man’s creation, all of the universe was at peace. However, this leaves them with the problem of accounting for animals who sport armor, or defensive or offensive weapons as body parts. JW’s could develop the argument that god created the animals with the ability to be dangerous but simply didn’t allow them to exercise that ability. But even for a JDub that argument would have to seem pretty ridiculous, and they would probably reject it anyway based upon their idea that they serve a god of love who would never create inherently dangerous creatures.

  Their only other option is to believe that these animals grew those dangerous anatomical features through adaption. Of course most people realize that it takes hundreds of thousands or even millions of years for that to happen. But using JW’s own chronology, the animals had far less time than that in which to adapt. Dubs believe that god’s prohibition against eating meat was lifted after a global flood, which they believe occurred in 2370 BCE. It is also their belief that that is when animals began killing one another for food. We can extrapolate that and say that that’s when these dangerous or deadly features of animals would have been “allowed” to begin evolving. How long did it take them to evolve? For the venomous snake, it could only have been a few hundred years. Numbers 21:6 says that god sent venomous snakes against the Israelites when they were wandering in the Wilderness, and that some Israelites died from the snakebites. According to JW chronology, it was fewer than 900 years between the flood and the Israelite’s trek through the Wilderness.

  For a group of people who don’t believe in evolution, they are stuck with the belief that god allowed extremely rapid evolution of these animals. How would they handle that?
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  18

  Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

  by jws in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm agnostic.

  there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

  after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

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  Socrateswannabe

  Long ago I concluded that the bible is a book of (bad) fairy tales. Now I marvel at the staying power that these ridiculous and harmful stories have had in the judeo/christian tradition. What modern people still believes greek mythology as truth? No one. But the flood, adam and eve, miracles of the prophets, jesus...all of these are taken at face value by millions of people. Puzzling.
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  26

  The bOrg Cult Tactics

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm wondering if the borg actually studied mind control and coercion tactics deliberately or wether they just evolved over time through trial and error.

  from reading steve hassans books, studying hypnosis and methods psychopaths use it all seems very complex.

  like it would never occur to me to do a, b and c in the right order at the right time in order to get control of someone or control their lives.. for example, repetition of words (the word "loyalty" was a big one in the last convention), using loaded language, encouraging people not to trust their own thoughts, restricting their information, demonising those who leave etc.

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  Socrateswannabe

  I think people are either bullies and abusers or they aren't. I don't think it's learned, it's just something that they innately know how to do. It just so happens that they have scratched their way to power in the WTS and it's been that way ever since this org was formed back in Russel's time.
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  10

  This religion has a chance of survival

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jws could survive as an organization due to one vital human need: recognition.

  for decades this religion glorified the older ones and really didn't do much for the younger folks, hence the younger people left in droves.

  if you're middle-aged or older, what was the average age of the elders in your congregation or your circuit overseer, as you were growing up?

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  Socrateswannabe

  Interesting and insightful responses. My OP was speculation, of course, and all of you make good points. Maybe the title of my post should have been "Major Padadigm Shift in JW Organization--Toward Youth". That would have been more accurate.
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  10

  This religion has a chance of survival

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jws could survive as an organization due to one vital human need: recognition.

  for decades this religion glorified the older ones and really didn't do much for the younger folks, hence the younger people left in droves.

  if you're middle-aged or older, what was the average age of the elders in your congregation or your circuit overseer, as you were growing up?

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  Socrateswannabe

  The JWs could survive as an organization due to one vital human need: recognition. For decades this religion glorified the older ones and really didn't do much for the younger folks, hence the younger people left in droves. If you're middle-aged or older, what was the average age of the elders in your congregation or your circuit overseer, as you were growing up? Probably 60-80, right?

  Things have changed a lot in the past two years. This became evident beginning in 2014. At least in my part of the world, Bethel speakers at the regional convention that year looked to aveage about 16 years old. That year and since then, the WTS sent letters to the elders and published Watchtower articles regarding the obligation to bring young brothers along and give them responsibility in the congregation sooner--as in NOW. They were told to throw out the notion that a brother has to be 30 years old to quality to be an elder. Early 20's is okay if he is spiritually mature. We have since had circuit overseers in their late 20's/early 30's in our area. These guys and their young wives are visiting the congregations and spending time with...who? The old farts? No way! They spend time with the young ones and it is paying off for them. In my congregation, most of the regular pioneers are under 30. We have new, young elders who have been appointed recently. Have you met anyone who works for the LDC (successor to the RBC)? I have yet to meet anyone over 35 in that group.

  So here's why I think this is possible salvation for the JW juggernaut. People thrive on recognition and empowerment. Studies have shown that if an employee is presented with the choice of a new, important-sounding title vs. a raise, astoundingly more people will chose the title. And so in the JW organization, if young people are recognized and put in charge, they will become and remain engaged in this organization. And they will stay engaged long as they continue to be recognized and empowered. The GB may have solved a dilemma that has dogged them for decades--how to keep the young ones from straying or fading. They may very well have stuck their finger into the dike.
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  24

  Dress and grooming

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know this is an old topic, but it came to mind again.... yes it is appropriate for people to dress neatly and respectfully for a dignified religious gathering, but why does it have to be a full suit with collared shirt and tie?.

  why does it have to be a full dress or skirt and jacket?.

  sure, we would find it distasteful for a person to arrive in swimwear or work overalls or other inappropriate attire, but why does it have to conform to strict standards?.

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  Socrateswannabe

  I completely agree that the dress code is all about control, but as far as gripes against the WTS are concerned, this one is about number 10,001 on my list. There are at least ten thousand better things to go after these guys for.