To come back to cooking the books, the young elder I spoke to said that while there is increase, Jehovah is blessing the Org. If that is a general belief, the numbers will carry on increasing, no matter what. Does anyone know whether there had been such statements made from the platform?
Posts by Vidqun
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22Notes from 2 day assembly - "Thought Control"
by baltar447 inthese notes were sent to me from a close friend who is biding his time to leave.. some of this we have read about already, the demo with the two brothers and the damage control they are doing over the ridiculous generation nonsense, but the thing about "thought control"tm i had not heard before...... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
you learn something new every day at the 'sembly.
today at the 'sembly we were educated on the importance of, and i quote, "practicing thought control" .
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Trying to do the RIGHT Thing.
by TOTH inand i am trying to talk myself out of doing something shitty.. as you may be aware, my father in law is married to a real piece of shit.
she neglects and abuses him and he is sick and elderly and now is addicted to pescription pain medication.
yet she continues to lead the cngregation by her "exemplary theocratic behavior" by being a regular pioneer and carting the sisters around to every place they need to go.
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Vidqun
Toth, Do not stoop to her level. Show her that you are the better person by treating her like your neighbor (even if you have to grit your teeth in the process). Hopefully she will become ashamed and pull herself toward herself, and start living according those Christian principles she professes. But of course, if she is a schizophrenic, wonderful in front of other people, and horrible to her close family, then there's not much you can do but to encourage her to get professional help.
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Who Knows The Exact Current Interpretation of "Generation" Please!
by Bubblegum Apotheosis inwould someone please explain the current interpretation of the generation.
this topic is one that is causing alot of confussion and turmoil.
jwn, you.
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Vidqun
Beast that ascends out of the abyss
This is the beast that “was, but is not, and yet is destined to ascend out of the abyss” (of inactivity). After World War I it would start off as the League of Nations, disappearing in the clouds of World War II. Afterwards it would be resurrected as the United Nations (cf. Rev. 17:8, 11). This is the beast that would kill the two witnesses (Rev. 11:7-10). In the book of Daniel it would be given the title “the [ultimate] abomination causing desolation” (Dan. 8:13; 11:31). This beast stands in the place of God’s kingdom, therefore an abomination in God’s eyes (cf. Ps. 46:8, 9; 72:3, 7, 8; Is. 2:4; Mic. 4:3).
In Rev. 13:15 the false prophet gave breath to the image of the beast (image of beast + breath = new beast) > scarlet-colored wild beast (Rev. 17:8)
What do we learn frim this:
1) The beast that ascends out of the abyss is one beast (Rev. 11:7; Rev. 17:8).
2) That means that Rev. 11:7 cannot be applied to period 1914-1918 (League was created after that date).
3) Now for the warning: Rev. 11:7 has a future fulfillment in accordance with the rest of the Scriptures (Ezek. 39, 40; Dan. 11:40-45; Zech. 13:7-14:5; cf. Rev. 11:7, 8). That is what happens when you consort with the UN beast. You are devoured.
This is where Matt. 24:15, 16 and Mark 13:14 come in. These prophecies have been fulfilled. Now is the time to flee. Where do you flee to?
As discussed on a previous thread (which you don't agree with). One cannot flee to God's organization, it has been compromised. The following places you should NOT flee to: The "mountains of Israel" are going to be invaded by Gog (Ezek. 38:8). The "beautiful land" (= the land of the Decoration) is going to be invaded by the King of the North (Dan. 11:41, 45). Jerusalem (= spiritual Jerusalem) is going to be captured (Zech. 13:7, 8; 14:1, 2). The two witnesses are going to be killed by the "beast from the abyss" (= the UN) (Rev. 11:7). Paul said: "Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, says Jehovah, and quit touching the unclean thing" (cf. Is. 52:11). By consorting with the beast, JWs have placed them on the same level as Babylon the Great (Rev. 18:4). The only place one can flee to is mentioned at Zech. 14:3-5 (for additional reading: Dan. 8:11-14).
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4/15 WT - WTS Pridefully says they can " Guide " JW's past "Armageddon "
by flipper inthis thread is for everybody and everybody is welcome to comment on it .
however i'm going to direct my thoughts and comments in this initial post to lurking jehovah's witnesses who may read on this board and may be sitting on the fence pondering on whether to stay in the jehovah's witnesses organization.
also to newer members who may have joined the board.. in this latest 4/15 wt in the article , " jehovah knows how to deliver his people " it conveys the thought that only the wt society ( through god's help ) will be guiding any jw's through the alleged " armageddon " considered god's war against the wicked.
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Vidqun
I agree with Dozy. They must first make up their mind about "the disgusting thng causing desolation." At the moment it is standing in a holy place, "where it ought not" (cf. Matt. 24:15; Mark 13:14), according to Watchtower theology. Surprise, surprise, it has been standing in their midst from 1992 to 2002. These prophecies have thus been fulfilled. Perhaps now is a good time to flee. But where do they flee to? Paul said: "Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, says Jehovah, and quit touching the unclean thing" (cf. Is. 52:11). By consorting with the beast, JWs have placed themselves on the same level as Babylon the Great (Rev. 18:4).
They cannot flee to "God's earthly organization," for it has been compromised. The following places they should NOT flee to: The "mountains of Israel" are going to be invaded by Gog (Ezek. 38:8). The "beautiful land" (= the land of the Decoration) is going to be invaded by the King of the North (Dan. 11:41, 45). Jerusalem (= spiritual Jerusalem) is going to be captured (Zech. 13:7, 8; 14:1, 2). The two witnesses are going to be killed by the "beast from the abyss" (= the UN) (Rev. 11:7). So they can only flee to the new formed mountains at Zech. 14:3-5, more specifically to the valley between those mountains.
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Memorial Partakers guesses?
by AK - Jeff inthe last four years:.
with all the changes in the 'generation', 'sealing', doctines, etc.
- there have been unexpected [i imagine] jumps in this number.
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Vidqun
13101 is a good number, lucky for some, unlucky for the GB.
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Future "New Light" on "this Generation" posted here now!!!
by Witness 007 inthe governing body {karl klien} in the 1970's considered changing the generation to refer to those who saw "sputnik.
" this dumbass idea was not approved....however....2012?.
2012 new light = "this generation that knew the 1914 generation is.....the new "generation.
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Vidqun
It's called the revolving door "generation". We know when the door went up, i.e., 1914, but we don't know who the last is through the door. It's an ongoing thing, see! Get it? No I knew you wouldn't get it because you're a bunch of godless, spiritless apostates!
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Has anyone here ever heard the terms "spiritual sacrifice" or "spiritual indigestion" and if so what do these mean?
by hoser in -
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Vidqun
Spiritual sacrifice = field service
Spiritual indigestion = that's when you eat of the sacrifice (you believe what you are telling the householder, e.g. about 1914 and the generation)
Sorry, couln't help that. That's my personal interpretation.
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Who Knows The Exact Current Interpretation of "Generation" Please!
by Bubblegum Apotheosis inwould someone please explain the current interpretation of the generation.
this topic is one that is causing alot of confussion and turmoil.
jwn, you.
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Vidqun
Thanks, Billy. That rounds out the discussion quite nicely. What was then and what is now, which we are discussing.
Yes Djeggnog, I can see we are at cross-purposes here, so I will try and simplify. With the beast argument I tried to demonstrate scholarly dishonesty (seems like I wasn’t very successful). For one to understand this argument you have to know about the beasts, and what the Society’s interpretation of the beasts are. That’s why I gave you the summary, to save time.
1) Are you saying here that you believe the "scarlet-colored wild beast" at Revelation 17:3, the beast on whom the harlot sits, is also the beast described at Revelation 11:7?
Yes, that is what I am saying, contrary to what the Society are saying. See explanation at Rev. 17:8. That means Rev. 11:7 has nothing to do with 1914-1918, viz. the Society’s explanation. The League of Nations was only formed in 1919. And if it did not take place, then it would be referring to a future, which is a frightening thought for a JW.
2) Are you saying here that you believe the "scarlet-colored wild beast" at Revelation 17:3, the beast on whom the harlot sits, is also the beast described at Revelation 13:1?
I don’t say that. The Society says so in their publications, which is false. See quote from the Revelation-book.
The conclusion one reaches is that the Society has no qualms in twisting the meaning of the Scriptures, i.e., God’s Word, to accommodate some of their core doctrines, e.g. 1914.
In connection with translating, don’t know whether you are aware that the NWT is an English translation, i.e., it was translated into English first, an English Bible for an English audience. So all the other NWTs, in the different languages, were translated from the English version. Feel free to check this out if you don’t believe me. So the English NWT is of cardinal importance in establishing the meaning of a word or phrase. No point in going to the NWTs in the different languages. These are all based on the English NWT.
And do not underestimate Webster. It is very informative, tracing the root word back to Greek, Latin, or from where it developed from, e.g. generate – generated, generating [L. genero, generatum, to beget], etc. So for the English speaking person, it is of the utmost importance. There we can agree to disagree.
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Watchtower's United Nations Association
by Celestial intemporarily, there's confusion until i get the facts straight: .
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php .
http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/default.html .
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Vidqun
In connection with the UN-NGO debacle. This argument I use with family and friends that are interested, based on Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14. The reasoning follow WT theology:
NWT Matthew 24:15 Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place , (let the reader use discernment)
NWT Mark 13:14 However, when YOU catch sight ofthe disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it ought not (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains.
First application:
The disgusting thing causing desolation = Roman army
In a holy place = in the temple area of Jerusalem’s temple
Judea = literal Judea, with Jerusalem as capital
To the mountains = the literal mountains of Israel
Second application:
When you catch sight of = notice, even for a short period of time
The disgusting thing causing desolation = The UN
Standing
In a holy place = place of true worship
Where it ought not
Judea = the beautiful land, spiritual paradise of God’s anointed remnant
Begin fleeing
To the mountains = God’s mountain and Jesus’ mountain, more specifically to the valley between the two mountains (Zech. 14:3-5)
The UN stood in the “holy place” for nine years, from 1992-2002. Now is a good time to flee.
Where do we flee to? Read: Zech. 14:3-5. And take note: JWs have joined the UN, they have become part of it. The disgusting thing causing desolation have stood "where it ought not". Prophecy (in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14) has thus been fulfilled.
One cannot flee to God's organization, it has been compromised. The following places you should NOT flee to: The "mountains of Israel" are going to be invaded by Gog (Ezek. 38:8). The "beautiful land" (= the land of the Decoration) is going to be invaded by the King of the North (Dan. 11:41, 45). Jerusalem (= spiritual Jerusalem) is going to be captured (Zech. 13:7, 8; 14:1, 2). The two witnesses are going to be killed by the "beast from the abyss" (= the UN) (Rev. 11:7). Paul said: "Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, says Jehovah, and quit touching the unclean thing" (cf. Is. 52:11). By consorting with the beast, JWs have placed them on the same level as Babylon the Great (Rev. 18:4). The only place one can flee to is mentioned at Zech. 14:3-5 (for additional reading: Dan. 8:11-14).
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Was Jesus racist ? mP: YES with scriptures
by mP ini am starting a new thread, as i have had several posts with tec regarding this very matter.
in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.
in answer he said: it is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.
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Vidqun
PM, the fact that parts of the Bible was written 2000 years ago seem to escape your notice (some of it is much, much older). Those were the days of slavery, the Roman Empire, and a multitude of militant nations that wanted to destroy each other. I can assure you racism was not foremost in their thoughts (actually the term did not exist in their vocabulary), survival was. Now you take Jesus and what happened there and compare it to the situation in the 20th century. Those terms were highlighted by Martin Luther King and his quest for equality. Certainly, things very far removed from the time of Jesus and his apostles. Things that happened in the Bible would be totally unacceptable today. Think of Lot offering his daughters to the mob, to protect his guests. But in those days things were different and people reasoned differently.