Posts by outnfree

7

Working Mums

by shalom in

as a first time mum i am hoping some of the more experienced mums and dads will reply with their thoughts and advice.... my baby is 4 1/2 months old and i am on maternity leave.

i will be returning to part time work (4 hours per day) in a month.

my boyfriend is being made redundant and is looking for another job but expects to take a pay cut which means i may soon have to resume full time work and my baby will attend a nursery/childcare centre during the day.. so far, all i have heard is negative thoughts and opinions about this from (mostly) family and some friends.

outnfree

Shalom,

It's a shame that your circumstances force you to go back to work, and full-time at that!

LDH was correct to point out that it is best to leave your baby with a member of your family during early childhood. There is nothing to compare with someone who truly loves YOUR baby because it's family. Jezebel said

...they usually love preschool, and will find themselves a surrogate mom.

wouldn't it be better if grandma or grandpa or auntie were the surrogate? After all, your son would be the apple of THEIR eye, too!

The New York Times (perhaps the NY Times Magazine?) within the past two weeks had an article which confirmed that children who stay home with Mummy (or another close relative) are better off than children who attend daycare. Perhaps this is why your family is negative?

Are they willing to help? Could you and your boyfriend live at home or find a less expensive place to live that would allow you to only work p/t? Have you figured out whether or not it will REALLY be financially worthwhile for you to work full-time if you must pay for daycare? When you stay home you eliminate [some] clothing costs, commuting costs, food costs, for example. You may be surprised to find that staying home while clipping coupons and other fiscal restraint may be in the realm of possibility after all.

Think it all through, shalom. And then do what you must.
Best wishes,
outnfree

29

wasted in arguments

by hippikon in

jw
friends

i think a lot of space is wasted in arguments that get personal.

we are a varied bunch and i think that variety is good.

i dont want to discourage anyone from posting but personal attacks ( justified or not) dont achieve anything.

outnfree

Hippikon,

I'm making a commitment to try not to slam anybody on this board in an unkind or sarcastic manner and to carefully pick and choose to whom and how I reply.

I think you're absolutely right that a great deal of time gets wasted in non-productive arguments. The board should be a civil place respectful of people who hold divergent viewpoints, though not necessarily respectful of those divergent viewpoints.

Thanks for bringing this subject up several times in the past week or so. And please don't give up on us.

Everyone,
Self-censoring (such as in not clicking the links to goo's pics, for example) or just restraining ourselves from our first impulse to make a smart-ass or derisive reply (counting to 10 first, anyone?) might be just the ticket to make this board once again the welcome respite for those whose minds have been 'addled' by the Borg.

outnfree

18

Doubletalk

by Norm in

jw
friends

some times the inconstancies and contradictions in the watchtower literature seems almost unbelievable.

the double standard of the watchtower writers seems to be without limit.. one of the explanations for this is that some watchtower articles deals with how jehovah's witnesses want to be perceived and how they want to be treated by society in general, and the contradictory articles deals with how the faithful and loyal witnesses should regard their enemies and outsiders.

in psalm 139 this is spoken of as a complete hatred.

outnfree

humble,

are you related to Fred?

Norm,

you've done it again! Thanks for compiling this.

outnfree

17

Let it RAINN

by Seven in

rape, abuse, & incest national network .

1-800-hope rainnoperates the nation's only toll-free hotline for survivors of sexual assault.

the hotline is operated 24 hours a day, and routes each call instantaneously to the rape crisis center nearest the caller by reading the area code and prefix of the caller's telephone number.

outnfree

And thank you for doing, so, Seven.

I accessed the link a while back to find out if any locals were on the sex offenders list and was appalled to find out that one of my grand-niece's classmates' father is on the list.

I am feeling rotten because this child decided in third or fourth grade that she wanted to be called "Nancy" rather than "Annabel" and we didn't always honor her wishes, thinking it silly. I now realize that she was probably splitting into a different personality to deal with her abuse. I also understand why the Mom was rumoured to have had a nervous breakdown! The fourth grade teacher always honored her request to be "Nancy" -- perhaps she had the REAL scoop. Anyway, this certainly alerted me to be AWARE if this ever happens again to ANY child with whom I have dealings.

By the way -- I don't know what all is happening in the child's life lately, but this year (5th grade) she seems to have no problem being "Annabel" again. Perhaps he's in jail. Let's hope.

What a nightmare!
outnfree
who thanks you again for this important thread

19

I"m finally gonna do it afterall these years!

by nojw86 in

jw
friends

i"m finally going to do it , write that dang da letter.

being that we still have family in, i would like some assistance in starting out this task.

i have so much already in mind, but after being on these board and reading about so many of you, i can see the strenght coming from you the beautiful way some of guys can write.

outnfree

nojw,

I agree with the majority here. If you want to make it clear that you are rejecting the organization and if you want to tell others why, write letters to your friends first and then mail your DA letter to the elders a day or two later.

It has been suggested that rather than writing Dear Friends at the top of your letter that you take the time to address each one with the recipient's personal name. In this way, no one will be sure who else exactly received a copy and they will be freed from having to report the matter to the elders.

I decided NOT to write to all the "friends" first and regret it. At the time I was too emotionally overwrought and every time I sat down to write the letter, it turned into a novel. There was so much I wanted to SAY and all of it seemed so important to back up. Now, I think I would just pose some thought-provoking questions and say something like my own research into these matters has led me to conclude... which is why I am disassociating.

I opted to write a short, four paragraph letter to the elder body because I did not feel that they would take the time to read a missive and that the GB was not likely to either.

Still, since then I have also found that Elder's Manual on the web, and it seems to me that if you have already been gone a number of years -- how many is it, nojw? -- you might be better to just remain in your inactive state. Apparently, if you've drifted away and the elders feel it's clear you do not recognize the congregation's authority over you any longer, they will not take any action at all.
Why burn all your bridges, if you don't have to?

I know you say that you no longer care about having contact with the family that's still in. Still, DA'ing yourself could make necessary family affairs much more complicated in the future. (Death, funeral arrangements, estate settlement -- you likely don't care about baby showers and weddings anymore?)

However, if, after all that, you still want to go ahead, Bravo! for you! Perhaps you, like mgm, will have the pleasure of "springing" another internee of the Borg.

I wish you peace, however you proceed.
outnfree

12

Blanket Judgements and other JW phenomenon

by LDH in

jw
friends

my mind was wandering last night and i started thinking about the way 'faithful' jws issue blanket condemnations.

i wondered if it's a personality thing that is just reinforced by the jw mantra of "we're always right and we're the only true religion etc.

" or if it's a jw or other fundy religious phenomenon.. here's two examples, feel free to add your own.. when i was about 17, i started visiting nyc regularly, and attending different congregations (wow!

outnfree

Omigosh, E-man!

I wasn't there when it happened, but a very young, newly married, socially deficient sister in our Hall (she's the one I would have had to die to protect during the tribulation!) made my daughter and one of her friends kneel right in the main foyer in order to "instruct them" that their skirts were too short and should touch the ground! A friend of mine's blood boiled and she went right over to the sister to tell her she was out of line and then she came into the hall to let me know what had happened. But the damage was done.
The girls were humilated by that self-righteous, tactless, ... I could go on but I won't.

TW --
A young sister's professionally manicured nails were too long AND too bright for field service at a New Jersey KH in the early nineties...

25

Psychics

by LovesDubs in

jw
friends

have any of you gone to have psychic readings?

or tarot cards or whtever since being sprung or even while in the borg?

there is one on the tv all the time, maybe shes just in the florida area, sounds bahamian.. "sooo wat areya waitin fooor?

outnfree

SFJim,

I don't think these psychics see all and know all. I DO think that some are simply con artists, allowing themselves a wide berth for error.

However, I also know some people (relatives, actually) who are gifted with that heightened sixth sense that Thinker's wife alluded to above, and that they have moments when they see the future quite clearly. Or have a 'sense' of what it going to happen good or bad. Or have dreams or visions that come true.

Usually, these people don't like the fact that these things occur to them. Others capitalize on them, figuring it's a way to make a quick buck.

I have never felt a need to consult a fortune teller since the episode 28 years ago, but I still can't deny that at least part of what I thought was ALL bunk at the time, actually came true.

I have NO idea why they don't ALL divine the winning numbers, horse, points spreads, etc. but I think most will simply tell you, "It doesn't work like that."

outnfree

7

The GB and Evil, WHY?

by jst2laws in

jw
friends

reading responses to jw72's current post i was reminded of a book i read more than ten years ago that makes it all fit together now.. being one who has hung on for years hoping for major reform within the jw administration i feel i now must accept reality.

why does the gb hang on to such unpopular and harmful teachings such as blood, confidentiality for pedophiles, disfellowshipping, meddling in personal matters, irritating people with their door to door preaching and on and on?.

years ago, i read a book by dr. scott peck entitled people of the lie.

outnfree

Just2,

I picked Dr. Peck's book off a library shelf a couple of years ago and put it back down after reading the flyleaves because I thought it would be too painful.

At the time I was dealing with my sociopathic nephew whose daughter I am raising, and I was not emotionally ready to even try to understand his [self-defeating, actually] behavior. (The only unselfish thing he ever did in his life was to send his daughter to our stable home.)

So it is very interesting to me to hear you summarize People of the Lie and to hear you agree with Stephanus' conclusion that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is actually perpetuating evil rather than being honest enough to admit they could in anyway be wrong -- and even being willing to blame God at times as you pointed out!!!

I know it has been very difficult for you to come to such a conclusion, having read your posts here and on H2O and realizing how desperately you had hoped for change from within.

For me, it only took reading Crisis of Conscience to recognize the sheer wickedness of the "anointed" in Brooklyn. Perhaps I had enough real-life "training" recognizing the type: my nephew who always managed to find someone else to blame for making him sell drugs, shoplift, abuse drugs, beat girlfriends, etc., ad nauseum, while insisting to his family that he was really "a good person".
He even has his parole officer convinced of that. Excellent manipulator he is, and so are the men who call themselves faithful and discreet but are neither.

My feeling is that the ones who recognize the corruption at Bethel and abhor it are the ones who leave. This means that the ones who stay on gradually become inured to the corruption, because they have the kind of personality that can file unpleasant realities into tiny corners of the mind. As the unpleasant realities mount they either crack or just make that file box expand as they justify their inaction to themselves.

I think most of us here of the rank & file probably have some experience with trying to do just that with the things that struck us as wrong: bury them into our subconscious. But eventually we were the types who could not stand the hypocrisy. It damaged our psyches and some of us also manifested physical symptoms. So we have left, if not yet officially because of family circumstances, then emotionally we have gone.

Some of the nicest brothers I know went off to Bethel and then left as soon as they had their two years in. They were like returning war veterans - reluctant to discuss their service years. So who remain? Over time it is those in each crop of Bethelite newbies who can put up with the obvious hypocrisy who remain. Eventually making a more and more calloused organization that is less and less likely to admit its heinous errors.

The Governing Body will NEVER beg forgiveness in my opinion. But we can all do what we can on a personal level to try to bring them and the entire EVIL [SLAVE?] entity down, freeing the Friends from life-endangering dogma, and soul-robbing doctrines.

outnfree

76

Question to shunned persons

by HesterPryne in

hello everyone,.

if your jehovah's witness relatves came to you and said..... "praise jah, there has been 'new light" and we can associate with you again!".....

what would you say or do?

outnfree

I have no family in, only one friend that I SORELY miss and want to SPRING from the trap that is the WTBTS, so I would welcome the new light and any approach she might make. There are a few others I'd like to share insights with, but it is not critical to me. Like RR, I disassociated myself, well aware of the consequences, only having remained as long as I did in order to try to reach my beloved friend.
Unlike those of you who have a hard time understanding how people can turn love on and off and are resentful, I have a different take. They have not "turned off" the love. They are repressing it at great personal cost. At least I was, when I shunned another dear friend for over a year before I finally gathered the courage to do what was right and go beg her forgiveness. I was so fearful that she would reject my overture as "too little, too late." Instead, she said, (because I was still IN) "It must have taken alot for you to come here." I just bawled!!!! Now I know I'm generalizing when I say "they have not 'turned off' the love" because some in the congregation and even in your own families did not really love you in the first place. But the ones who would come to your door, did. Do. But are enslaved to an authority which they wrongly equate with God. I am ferverently praying for my sister's release from captivity. I am, in my own foolish way, sending her love notes that thus far she has not ignored (subject lines in e-mails -- she sees those, even if she doesn't read the post which she would need to open).

On another note, I am going to be like Drue (if I ever run into anyone from my old congregation -- which I haven't since I DA'd myself 5 weeks ago): I will greet them with a greeting that demands a response. We will see if anyone responds politely. But even if they do not, I refuse to shun them, just because they feel a need to shun me. (Sorry about your pain on this, Drue. Perhaps having seen you, she, too, will reflect on that pre-baptismal interview and work her way out.)

outnfree
unedited -- too painful

Jesus Tempted in a Vision?

by outnfree in

in the 10/8/2000 awake!

in an article on "'extreme sports'- should you take the risk?

the article talks about how "both david and jesus recognized that it was wrong in god's eyes to take unnecessary risks that could endanger human life.

outnfree

In the 10/8/2000 Awake! in an article on "'Extreme Sports'- Should You Take the Risk? the article talks about how "both David and Jesus recognized that it was wrong in God's eyes to take unnecessary risks that could endanger human life." (1 Chronicles 11:17-19; Matthew 4:5-7).

The article states regarding Jesus: "Jesus reacted in a similar manner [to David] when, likely in a vision, the Devil tempted him to throw himself off the battlement of the temple to see if the angels would protect him from injury. Jesus responded: 'You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.'" (italics mine)

The QFR reads:

"You stated that Satan's temptation of Jesus was 'likely in a vision.' Were not the temptations actual experiences?"

The reply:
"Several aspects of the Bible account are problematic if taken literally. For example, there is no mountain tall enough for Satan to show Jesus 'all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.' Nor is it likely that Jesus would allow Satan literally to 'take him along into the holy city' or to station him 'upon the battlements of the temple.' (Matthew 4:5-8) Evidently, then, some sort of vision was involved. However it was performed, Satan's temptation of Christ was real. Jesus' refusal to succumb to such temptation demonstrated his unbreakable integrity. -- ED.

Now, I've always thought that 40 days and 40 nights in the desert with no food would likely put Jesus into some sort of trance. The temptation was real, because Satan was real and powerful and Christ knew that he was able to GIVE him all the temporal power he mentioned. In fact, to my mind, any literal mountain top (Mt. Zion?)would have done, because, yes, all the kingdoms of the world would need to have appeared in a vision of some sort.

My question is: Is this the first time that you've read anything in the Society's publications about Jesus being tempted in a vision?

Also, despite Satan's strength and position, Jesus was something greater, so why does the Society say that it is unlikely Jesus would go literally to Jerusalem with Satan to the temple battlements? Why not?

outnfree