Posts by Flat

25

Prayer answered

by StopTheTears in

jw
friends

last tuesday my elderly uncle was taken to the hospital by ambulance in extreme pain.

while he was in er a number of tests and bloodwork were ordered.at approx 3:30 wednesday morning my aunt called me in tears.

the test had revealed three large growths.. .

"Jesus, the Easter Bunny, and Other Delusions: Just Say No!"

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

jesus, the easter bunny, and other delusions: just say no!.

video of the lecture at the link below:.

http://vimeo.com/philosophynews/justsayno.

Flat_Accent

Good find LWT, it gets interesting after the general introduction about delusions and evidence based ideas etc.

12

What Do Jehovah's Witnesses Owe Us?

by 00DAD in

jw
friends

i thought i'd start a new thread in response to this one: .

what we owe jehovah's witnesses.

and rephrase the statement into a question: what do jehovah's witnesses owe us?.

I think for a lot of us, who were brought up as witnesses, the tendency is to ignore some of the important questions - what we want to do in life, where we see ourselves in 10,20 years, the kind of person we want to be.

Like most young witnesses, I reckon, (and I can only speak from personal experience) I never thought about any of those things, because Armageddon was coming. Armageddon was coming before I needed to go to College, before I had to decide about going to University, before I had to get a job, before I got married. God was going to hand me everything on a silver platter in the New System, and 'we're so close!' Why concern myself with future prospects in this world? It encouraged a sense of laziness on my part - I didn't need to worry, because anything I was doing was temporary, and I am suffering the consequences for that thinking now.

I chose a course in College that wasn't really for me. I never thought about what I really wanted to do, and just went with what my parents thought I should do. When I was younger, I wanted to be a lawyer, or an architect, but my parents said those would be a waste of time, or take too long at University, where I could be 'tainted'. I ended up doing a Graphic Design (basically advertising) course. It was recommended I apply for University but I was compelled to ignore the advice of my teachers. Now I'm sat at home, out of work, and I can only ever live with those regrets on the things I should have done, If only I hadn't been tied down by that godforsaken cult. Thanks Watchtower.

21

Honestly....What Kind Of Jehovah's Witness Were YOU???

by minimus in

jw
friends

when you were a witness, were you pretty much like you are now---personality wise?

are you calmer or more agitated?

are you that much different?.

Flat_Accent

I was pretty much the same as I am now. Hopefully less of a bigot. I try and think for myself a little more than I used to, but I was never really 'in'. I wasn't an exemplary witness, I think I just got by because my dad was/is the P.O. of the congregation.

65

Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

by d0rkyd00d in

there are two videos recently that caught my attention on youtube that i'd like to discuss.

both are posted below.

my next post under this topic will deal with the specifics, but please watch first so as not to be tainted by my commentary.

Flat_Accent

I also think it's funny that we're pretty much on the same side of the argument, and this all escalated because of our opposite views on AmazingAtheist. No hard feelings I hope.

65

Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

by d0rkyd00d in

there are two videos recently that caught my attention on youtube that i'd like to discuss.

both are posted below.

my next post under this topic will deal with the specifics, but please watch first so as not to be tainted by my commentary.

Flat_Accent

I can see bohm, that you've led me on a merry song and dance here, by asking and then answering your own question, responding to an argument I didn't even make. I won't say you made me look stupid because that's bound to end up badly for me.

bohm: Did he ever define his beliefs on Hellfire?! Gay Marriage?!

FA: No, and I didn't expect him to-

bohm: HOW DARE YOU CRITISIZE THIS VIDEO ON THE GROUNDS IT DOESN'T DEFINE SOMETHING

No, none of those things are mentioned. And I'm not critical of the video for not mentioning them - as I said in that portion you neatly missed out of your reply, the first reason for doing so is that the subject matter in the poem is not relevant to Hellfire, Gay Marriage etc.

What he does do, however, is give us some sense of how he applies christianity in his life:

"I love the bible, I love the church and yes I believe in sin." He also is part of the Mars Hill church, but we'll get to that in a minute. The point is, for him, there's more to it than Jesus being a good man, he still follows all the normal rules and regulations that would classify him 'Christian'. And as cofty has so rightly pointed out, Jesus was a follower of the law too, so again this 'Jesus came to abolish religion!' argument falls flat on it's face.

I don't know why you find the 'promotional ad' comment so funny, he's done a good job of it - just set your dial to the 'easy listening' portion of christianity and that's pretty much his poem. How you can call TAA's vid an emotional appeal just because he read directly from the bible is beyond me.

As for the second half of your response here, Bethke is a member of this Mars Hill church group. I decided to take a look at some of the sermons online, and here's a few quotations:

Jesus was a man who claimed to be God. Think on that for a minute. If that were true, how would it change the way you thought, felt, and lived this life?
At Mars Hill, we believe that Jesus is God.

God killed everyone. Why? They were perverts. Why? Guys were having sex with guys, and those people went to Hell. If you think that's pro-gay, I mean, I know the public school system isn't delivering the best outcome, but man, you really gotta leap to make that to be pro-gay.

The fate of every man and woman who has or will ever live is this: death, and then either heaven for blessing, or hell for suffering. Those alone are the options. Your eternal destiny is sealed upon your death. This life is your only opportunity. Hell is the wrath of God in effect. If you do not believe in and belong to Jesus, you are in the path of the wrath of God that ultimately culminates in the conscious, eternal torment of hell.

I believe that we were made image bearers of God, and the farther we get from God, one generation after the next, the more we start to act like animals.
Because of that, some people hypothesize that we came from animals. We didn't. We've just fallen, we've descended to where we're acting more like animals than we intended to.

The evolutionists are wrong. We don't spring from nothing by nothing for no reason. The impersonal does not make the personal. Nothing does not make something. . . So, we don't believe in evolution.

In addition, it's interesting. Jesus talks about the days of Noah in Matthew 24:37-39. Now, a lot of scholars say, "Hmm, I'm not sure I believe in Noah. I think it's myth." Jesus believed in Noah. Jesus talked about Noah. Go with Jesus.

I hope that clears a few things up.

65

Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

by d0rkyd00d in

there are two videos recently that caught my attention on youtube that i'd like to discuss.

both are posted below.

my next post under this topic will deal with the specifics, but please watch first so as not to be tainted by my commentary.

Flat_Accent

Okay, i did myself the enormeous disservice of actually listening to the two videos.

First off, I must apologize for the trouble I've caused you. I know it's hard to sit through 15 minutes of internet videos, and how it can just ruin your whole day. Really though, if your intention had never been to watch the videos, then I don't see what you were doing commenting in this thread anyway. . .

[bohm, posted 2/11/2012] The amazing atheist is an absolute asshole.

Ah.

Moving on.

The first video make some good points about religion.

The only thing I find myself agreeing with is this statement:

If religion is so great, why has it started so many wars?

Why does it build huge churches, but fails to feed the poor?

Jefferson is admittedly trying to denouce religious hypocrisy, and at the same time talking up the main figurehead of the Christian faith, but actually, I think the two go hand in hand. We've seen plenty of times how religious text can be used to justify all kinds of terrible atrocities. And fear of damnation, not moral precepts, was a main factor in the church obtaining a stranglehold on it's subjects. (Hellfire of course, was a punishment only spoken about in the New Testament). If Jesus exists, then he has been guiding Christianity since the very beginning, so there isn't an excuse for the hypocritical stands the church has taken over the years.

As for the main issue - Is Jesus separate from Religion - Jefferson's video makes no good points. That is the permise of this discussion, the fact that he makes no clear distinction between Jesus, his religion, and other religions. That's because there is no distinction, he is trying to make a concession for what he believes. Even then, it is impossible to separate Jesus from the religion that he, or at least his followers, created!

Now having watched the video (all 4 minutes) did he ever: Clearly define what he believe in and do not believe in etc.

No. And I wouldn't expect him to. The video is clearly a promotional ad for Christianity. Talking about unpopular and controversial subjects is going to work against what he is trying to do. How many viewers would he sway if he started talking about Hellfire, or Gay marriage? These things are deliberately kept out of the video - Firstly because those topics weren't really relevant to the poems subject matter, and secondly because those subjects divide opinion. The video is intended to be emotionally driven, so it focuses on the pleasantries of christianity, not the whole picture.

Now the second video.

For instance he assume the kid believe in hellfire and rant about that on multiple occations, all because he made vague statements about being saved.

Yes, saved from what? I think it's safe to say the majority of the people who agree with the first video believe in Hellfire - remember it is a rather pervasive doctrine. Either way this I think you've missed several of the other points made, but I won't go into that again, just read my first post if you want a recap.

65

Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

by d0rkyd00d in

there are two videos recently that caught my attention on youtube that i'd like to discuss.

both are posted below.

my next post under this topic will deal with the specifics, but please watch first so as not to be tainted by my commentary.

Flat_Accent

'Amazing asshole', nice wordplay. He did post a response to that on his blog, by the way:

[Regarding a previous comment] "The full context of the remark was nothing to do with rape and everything to do with this strange new internet phenomena of “triggers.” People now ask for “trigger warnings” if you post something the least bit incendiary, because your dangerous words may be detrimental to those with debilitating mental issues or emotional trauama. I’m as sympathetic towards those who’ve suffered trauama as anyone else, but if you have such issues, it’s your responsibility to avoid triggers, not my responsibility to protect you from them. My comment was meant to make a point about how silly the concept of triggers is, and I made that clear several times...

[Regarding paragraph you posted] I will admit to some wrong doing. The comment I made afterwards was pretty ugly. At the time it just seemed edgy, but in the light of morning I can see that I did myself no favors by typing it. I regret going in that direction. I was trying to make my point about triggers by writing the most “triggering” paragraph I possibly could. I should have at least provided some context. It was poor wording on my part and I sincerely apologize to anyone hurt by it. Yet again, it was immediately followed up by another post explaining my intentions. Yet again, [everyone] ignores this in favor of the assertion that I am pro-rape and anti-female."

I don't intend on defending him for his comments, I think that one was out of line - however an apology has been made, there's no need to go on about it any further.

And still you have avoided commenting on the actual points made in his video, so I can only assume you're just ignoring his criticisms and hiding behind the fact that you don't particularly like him. I pretty much summed his video up minus the language and you haven't responded to that either. Lets have a discussion instead of telling each other who we think is stupid.

65

Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

by d0rkyd00d in

there are two videos recently that caught my attention on youtube that i'd like to discuss.

both are posted below.

my next post under this topic will deal with the specifics, but please watch first so as not to be tainted by my commentary.

Flat_Accent

Yes cofty, its got a lot of views and kudos, but it's the same regurgitated stuff they've been saying for years. I didn't need to hear it again. It makes no worthwhile arguments and covers no new ground. In that sense, it is pointless.

65

Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

by d0rkyd00d in

there are two videos recently that caught my attention on youtube that i'd like to discuss.

both are posted below.

my next post under this topic will deal with the specifics, but please watch first so as not to be tainted by my commentary.

Flat_Accent

Amazing Atheist won. ''But he swears a lot!'' So what, it doesnt detract from the point he made. Taking his statements out of context or completely making them up, bohm, is also a waste of time - we're talking about these two videos, nothing outside of that. Judgement should be made from these videos alone.

All Jefferson is trying to do is single out Christianity as the true religion. Look at how he starts his argument:

'Religion makes you blind, Jesus makes you see'

and how he ends it:

'Religion is man searching for god, Christianity is god searching for man'

This is just glorified, slick advertising campaign for Christianity. Saying that Jesus and Religion are two separate things is a completely idiotic statement. Jesus gathered disciples, and used them to establish a belief structure centered around him. It doesn't matter if Jesus said nicer things than Mohammed, they are both RELIGIOUS ICONS, and are worshipped.

Besides that, Jefferson himself admits to following all the tenures of Christianity, and pretty much encourages it:

'I love the bible, I love the church, and yes I believe in sin.'

There is nothing in this video that distinguishes Jesus as a separate entity from Religion, and you should be able to see that. Easily.

This video is completely pointless.

EDIT: I know I'm pretty much mirroring TJ's point, but It's worth repeating for those of you that stopped after the first 'F' word.

Flat_Accent

Posts by Flat_Accent