Pathofthorns

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Posts by Pathofthorns

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  148

  Comments from Ray Franz re Bill Bowen

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i talked at length with ray franz this afternoon regarding the following comments by bill bowen: ray franz supports the wt policy on child abuse.

  he is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation.

  it is interesting that wt is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate.

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  Pathofthorns

  Hi Amazing..

  Thanks for stating so clearly and rationally what many of us feel. I realize the point continues to be beaten to death, but I think things would have blown over reasonably well had an unreserved apology been issued much sooner. You can't blame people for being confused and concerned when the matter has never really been put to rest by means of honest explanations and apologies.

  I believe the time has passed for any further apology because it will have been issued out of necessity instead of out of true regret. Sometimes an apology where you simply state I was an idiot and I lost my mind is the only thing that will do. But once you let the opportunity for an apology pass you by, this is rarely an effective option any more.

  And if people can't forgive and forget what you did, hopefully they can respect that you were man enough to admit what you did and that you accept full responsiblity and reprocussions from the people you hurt. This is probably why we are such a sensitive lot because as JW's we saw so much hurt caused by men who would beg off from accepting responsibility for their crimes.

  I think the Silentlambs group will have to suffer a period of time where they will have to work to get back the trust of many persons. Hopefully a new spokesperson steps up to the plate while at the same time the whole organization shifts in appearance and presentation from being a product of Bill Bowen to an entity that simply cares about helping abused persons. Assisting victims to gain victories against the WT will certainly help get it back on it's feet again and gain lost respect and confidence.

  I just think there are valuable lessons that hopefully have been learned. Sometimes I wonder if we condemn the WT critically beyond reason we will inadvertantly condemn ourselves. Human nature often leads us down the same predictable paths.

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  Edited by - pathofthorns on 16 October 2002 14:56:19
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  42

  Our Magic Ride

  by onacruse in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  katie and i went to newberg, oregon for our balloon trip.

  sunday morning, 7:00 a.m., cool, crisp, totally clear.. .

  expert balloonist craig holds the tie wires, just like he was told.

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  Pathofthorns

  congratulations very cool...

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  31

  Awake 8th Nov Picture

  by why144000 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  could someone please have a look and perhaps post a picture from the nov 8th awake.

  i have been told that the picture was taken during a convention and a young person is giving the 'finger' at the time the photo was snapped.

  i do not have access to the mag but it would be interesting to see if something like that was allowed to slip through.

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  Pathofthorns

  lol.. Priceless

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  42

  Today I had been DA

  by Ginosko in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  first of all, sorry for my bad english i'm from peru south america.

  there's a lot to tell but i'm going in this time to be brief, because i'm very busy.. i had been an elder for almost 8 years and a jh for more than 22 years.. i'm a searcher of the truth from the 10 years old.

  i grow as a catholic and got baptized as a jh at the age of 21.. in october of 2001 a jw friend ask me about the un&wt and bulgarian affair.

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  Pathofthorns

  welcome Ginosko...

  It is disturbing (yet expected) the increasing tendancy to disassociate people that have not expressly stated they wish to disassociate themselves. Any announcement of disassociation where the individual has not specifically indicated their intent to formally leave the organization paints a misleading picture in the minds of those in the congregation.

  The reasoning that an individual by his conduct indicates he no longer wishes to be a witness can be applied to nearly anything they wish to apply it to. It is apparent the Society is more concerned about protecting themselves legally than they are about actually 'helping' people. I think such behavior is cowardly when they pass judgement but refuse to accept responsibility for doing so.

  I hope you can retain some JW friends and that they will slowly appreciate what you do. It is a shame to leave good people behind but sometimes you just have to appreciate the spell they are under and hope for the best.

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  37

  What are your thoughts on writing DA letters?

  by mamashel in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as most of you know, i have been inactive for about 2 1/2 yrs and completely out for about 7 months.

  i am debating on wether or not to write a letter of da to the org or not.

  in some ways i just want closure, and on the other hand i dont want to play by their rules.

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  Pathofthorns

  I think few things drive them more crazy than someone that has clearly left off involvement but refuses to disassociate themselves.

  Most JW's would rather be doing anything other than "theocratic activities" so when they see you retain the JW label without doing anything while they are busting their asses going to 5 meetings/week and going door to door and still getting lectured by the WT for not doing enough, they just can't stand it.

  When you're kicking back with a beer watching the game on weeknights or sleeping in on the weekends and not feeling guilty about it, they are literally going bananas.

  The whole trick is to feel good about yourself and life now. Be friendly to them and don't give them any reasons for your departure. Be vague like "I'm just taking a break" and then change the subject. Don't let yourself be lectured to. If they ask personal questions about you and your family, ask a personal question back at them. Realize these people have no authority over you and that it is kind of humorous that they even imagined they ever did.

  What you are doing is breaking down the stereotypes of what they feel happens when people cease involvement with them. You're confusing them and forcing them to think harder. If many of us had sent the DA letters we had intended, we would have given the WT exactly what they were hoping for.

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  39

  The pain of false accusations

  by kelsey007 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alanf posted in another thread: .

  "i want to put the board on notice that this "kelsey007" person is a jw in good standing (possibly even several jws posting under the same handle) and is on this board only to stir up trouble.

  take a close look at his posts.

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  Pathofthorns

  I want to put the board on notice that this "kelsey007" person is a JW in good standing (possibly even several JWs posting under the same handle) and is on this board only to stir up trouble.

  Every statement made here would seem to be false.

  Take a close look at his posts. Every one manages to stir the pot in some way -- damning with faint praise, causing trouble for the silentlambs movement or Bill Bowen personally, or worst, downplaying the plight of victims of abuse.

  After actually reading closely Kelsey's post for the last couple of weeks I would have to conclude that Alan did not take the time to personally read a significant number of Kelsey's posts. This statement is false too.

  Tell me about your poor son's feet.

  This is imo way over the top if what Windchaser says is true. No father should have to endure this kind of condescending sarchasm if he has had to watch his child suffer tragedy. How is your daughter these days Alan? I'm sure you wouldn't like someone making light of her car accident when that happened.

  I heard you had some wiring problems the last few months. Care to enlighten the board about them?

  I'd be interested in what Kelsey has to say on this too. No one likes a traitor and I almost dropped a post like you did on the board when i heard the rumor. A traitor is the lowest thing there could be.

  But I decided to wait and to read his comments on the board and determined his comments were not consistent with someone who was a WT supporter or a WT "spy" (rolling my eyes).

  Yes I could be wrong, but at this point in time I wouldn't be sticking my neck out on information from someone who has had some serious "misunderstandings" lately and who has been quick to jump to false conclusions. So far all of Kelsey's information seems to checking out whereas Alan's is not.

  If it turns out there was indeed some "misunderstanding" regarding the "wiring problems" incident, alot more people than just Alan owe Kelsey and apology. And that comment about his son was so wrong I feel literally sick to know it was even made. I'd like to hear Kelsey's side of the incident so we can clear the air.

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  39

  The pain of false accusations

  by kelsey007 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  alanf posted in another thread: .

  "i want to put the board on notice that this "kelsey007" person is a jw in good standing (possibly even several jws posting under the same handle) and is on this board only to stir up trouble.

  take a close look at his posts.

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  Pathofthorns

  I would like to see this explored further and hear the evidence from those who have made the allegations. Since they have been made publicly, the supporting evidence should be made publicly and it would seem Kelsey would have no problem with that so it can be addressed.

  I have heard this rumour and yet find Kelsey's posts quite reasonable and balanced. I don't find them to be in support of the WT in any way. And as for "stirring the pot", that is what this place is all about and it gets dull quickly when we all pat each other on the back.

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  121

  Ray Franz Key Witness?!

  by qwerty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this may have been a topic before on the board.

  it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.

  would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?

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  Pathofthorns

  That's half-assed Bill.

  You have publicly attacked Ray's character and still you make the following ridiculous comments criticizing how Ray chooses to live his life after the WT.

  I guess I could state it another way, I do not understand the Ray Franz cause. It appears to be, leave WT it is bad, try to help others out by reading his book and go to small Bible study groups for the rest of your life. Is the sum total of helping people? to be expressed in helping them to leave WT and harassing those to stay? Isn't that kind of like a JW in reverse? If this is your choice in life it certainly does not make you a bad person, that is what freedom is all about. But I guess there lay the difference with the cause of silentlambs. We support those who need it the most and let them know they are loved. If you want to be a JW, so what? If you hate JW's, so what? We can work together and help abuse survivors make progress on the path to healing and stand up to those who hurt them. Silentlambs is certainly not against Ray Franz we don't care if he wants to support JW abuse survivors or not.

  We wish Ray as well as all persons could see the need to stand up on this issue

  You've been hanging around JR Brown to long.

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  148

  Comments from Ray Franz re Bill Bowen

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i talked at length with ray franz this afternoon regarding the following comments by bill bowen: ray franz supports the wt policy on child abuse.

  he is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation.

  it is interesting that wt is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate.

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  Pathofthorns

  There is no option for Bill but to either call Ray Franz a liar or to apologize for the "apparent misunderstanding". To go any other route than an apology is simply suicide.

  Take a well-deserved vacation Bill and keep your personal comments and thoughts to yourself. Think before you say stuff and maybe run it by some of your associates first.

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  53

  Give Bill a deserved break!

  by Derrick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  islandwoman, i hope you don't take this topic as a personal attack because none such was intended.

  in the topic why is bill bowen attacking us?

  the topic's author asks about bill bowen, "why is he attacking ray franz, hillary_step and from what i've heard on this board also reinhard lengtat?".

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  Pathofthorns

  Bill's behavior as of late has been unacceptable. Likely he needs a break and maybe he needs a reality check too. Yes, he has done alot of good, but that does not excuse him from conducting himself in a respectful manner among friends. And it certainly doesn't give him a licence to outright attack people who are essentially on the same side but might have differing views and perspectives.

  What are we all supposed to do? Wait on Jehovah and turn a blind eye to something that is clearly driving the Silentlambs movement into the ground?

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