Posts by Pathofthorns

51

The Two Witness Rule is NOT THE ISSUE

by jst2laws in

the problem.

many here are supporters of the movement to expose the wt society's harmful policies that seem to shelter molesters and punish victims.

a common scenario is there are not two witnesses or a confession to the sin and the "loyal" elders have told the victim and their parents that 'there is nothing more we can do'.

Pathofthorns

J2L..

Thanks for your reply. I also wanted to say that I think your comments in your original post to this thread were very much spot on with what I observed at Vicki Boer's trial. It was clear the elders handling the matter did not grasp the severity of the crime or even that it was a crime and they actively sought ways to get around personally reporting this matter to the authorities.

I personally feel the main difficulty with regard to the two witness rule arrises with regard to the whole "repressed memories" issue. I would have to admit that I would be hardpressed if I was an elder to personally take action in such instances and would have to leave that matter with the individual to personally pursue with the police.

The JW judicial process is horribly flawed and unfair and traumatic for anyone facing their inquisitions. They really need to take a closer look at their investigative and judicial procedures. I think they are one of the primary reasons why people decide they no longer wish to be involved with JW's after going through such a horrible process. The two witness rule is what has saved alot of people from facing these committees and is probably the only thing good about the whole process.

The whole child molestation issue seems to be one that presents difficulties at every turn. Even handing matters over to the authorities is not a magic solution and is one that still presents challenges and disappointments.

I think the most important thing with regard to this whole issue is the dialogue and exposure that there in fact was a problem in the first place. For JW's to know and accept that this is a very real problem that exists among them as it exists elsewhere is quite an accomplishment. The awareness of the issue and the talk surrounding it is imo the greatest step in creating an atmosphere where these people are not tolerated and where they cannot hide easily. I think the present climate would be that elders and the Society would be more inclined to simply hand these matters over to the authorities than to have to deal with it and all the potential difficulties themselves. But maybe I am just being naieve.

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51

The Two Witness Rule is NOT THE ISSUE

by jst2laws in

the problem.

many here are supporters of the movement to expose the wt society's harmful policies that seem to shelter molesters and punish victims.

a common scenario is there are not two witnesses or a confession to the sin and the "loyal" elders have told the victim and their parents that 'there is nothing more we can do'.

Pathofthorns

J2L...

Just wondering what your thoughts are with regard to the fundamentals of Christianity and the forgiveness of all sins on the basis of faith in Christ's sacrifice? Exactly what is the congregation supposed to do with molesters who have served their sentences? Is not Christianity itself and the concept of "forgiveness" and the supposed ability to "change" people's personalities at the root of much of this problem in Christian religions?

Is there any place for them realistically in a Christian congregation where there are children present? How should they handle "repentent" molesters in harmony with Christian teachings?

I personally see no real difficulties with the 2 witness rule as you expressed and that allegations of minors being abused should be reported to the authorities. I also think convicted molesters (and alleged molesters until proven innocent) should not be allowed to go door to door. If the Society does implement these policy changes how much can we trust their elders to follow through?

We also cannot skirt around the possibly of false accusations and the seriousness of making such. I consider false accusations of this sort to be a wrong of the highest degree.

To be honest, I would like to see case by case examinations of where the Society or their representatives failed these people and the degree to which they were responsible for what happened to them. I think the Society's stance on discouraging certain therapies is significant in the harm they caused as well. I just think there is certain dangers in presenting blanket arguments that would lead people to believe that the Society is the root cause of all of these instances of molestation.

Exactly what is the absolute goal of Silentlambs? If changes are made but not trusted to be implemented then will this ever end until the WT is out of business? What is the real goal here? How exactly do we fight over the policies on molestation where the WT is most often indirectly or partially responsible and at the same time ignore the children that die solely due to their policy on blood?

Many know that I have been bothered by this subject for quite some time now and I still fail to grasp these things. I have been patient and will continue to be but I cannot fully support something I don't understand well enough. I feel I have made progress but if I don't understand the goal how well can I support the changes that get us there?

My personal hope honestly is the end of the WT or if that is not reasonable then for it to be a religion without teeth. I see little benefits to children - even with whatever "policy changes" - as long as this religion continues on it's present path. Are we interested in protecting children in every sense of the word or are we hoping this issue is an effective means to collapse the house of cards?

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10

Reasoning With Your JW Family

by Perry in

jw
friends

reasoning with your jw family

an honest review of wt literature reveals that the fd&s believe that they are jehovah, or are at least synonomous with his authority and salvation characteristics.

here's a quick review: .

Pathofthorns

enjoyed your post Perry.

I think the nazi comparison will result in the response DJ has commented on. Perhaps a better comparison would be to use ancient Isreal, Jews of Jesus' day, 1st century Christianity, and "apostasy" in the JW organization's early "modern history" to show corruption is possible and entirely likely considering the warnings in the scriptures stating this would happen.

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23

Is "questions from readers" made up b...

by SpannerintheWorks in

jw
friends

an ex-jw friend of mine once agreed with me that the letters in the "questions from readers" section in the wt/awake!

were all made up by the wbts.. does anybody have any evidence either way?.

has anybody had their "question" published?.

Pathofthorns

Re: Earthquake comment... lol@"without taking sides on the issue..."

What kind of help is a sign so general as "there will be earthquakes"? How can that possibly help a bible reader identify a specific time period when all time periods have been marked by earthquakes? What stupid reasoning coming from the "top".

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11

Sunday program: WTS says It's all lies!

by ozziepost in

reports are being circulated that congregation elders in new south wales have been instructed what to tell householders who raise questions about the recent "sunday" program report.

they are to say that it's all lies.

amazingly this contradicts the evidence from decided court cases as shown in the program.

Pathofthorns

The WT cannot be proud of the quality of it's members these days. In past times members knew what they believed and could explain it well and refute objections. Now they can hand you a magazine and tell you anything different is "just lies".

As embarrassed and frustrated certain JW's are by the low quality of the rank and file, they have only their leaders to thank.

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55

WTS Secret Police

by Pleasuredome in

heres a story of what happened to me at a district convention this year.. an unbaptised publisher and i travelled to wolverhampton district convention in england.

this wasnt our district but id been on holiday and had missed my own district convention (how unspiritual of me).

so me and this friend decided to go to this convention and was also hoping to meet a friend there.. on the saturday morning we were delayed in traffic and we eventually arrived at 11.30am, paid our 3 for parking (i wonder if they had the use of car parks for free?

Pathofthorns

Interesting experience. I knew certain ones were assigned to follow suspicious individuals (no badge, beards, dress out of the ordinary) but never heard of anything to the degree you mentioned.

In all fairness, with the degree they have hurt and angered people, I don't think certain possibilities are unrealistic and their security measures are arguably justified.

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19

Reconciliation w Tina & Julie

by Amazing in

jw
friends

a few days ago minimus posted a thread on flame wars at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=39526&site=3 ... in it i commented about tina & julie, who posted here until about late february or early march, and acknowledged that i could and should have acted as a friend toward them rather than being like a lawyer ... being right or fighting over what seems right is not always as important as concern for people and what they are going through.

i failed them in this regard.

a couple of people shared my comments with them, and both tina and julie responded right away in email to me.

Pathofthorns

nice post amazing. I think the direction you are taking this is the better way. Looking forward to future posts on the subject.

Few things are worth the loss of our friends and while disagreements will inevitably come, I think as long as we endeavor to be reasonable we can find positive solutions.

I would like to believe as long as the desire is there to resolve a conflict instead of perpetuating a war and if we take the innitiative,
there are few conflicts that can't be patched up to the point where we can at least be civil.

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21

Know your Apostate Co-Workers.......

by ApagaLaLuz in

okay.. so about 3 months ago, my company ordered in a guy from a temporary agency to help out with some of the filing and billing.

for arguments sake, well call him adrian.

anyway, as soon as he started here, i recognized him from the assemblies.

Pathofthorns

haha.. loved the wink and the exit. thanks for the laugh :)

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5

Should Jws use stone handaxes?

by badboy in

jw
friends

i understand they r venerated in indian temples,there4 should jws use them?

Pathofthorns

I just wanted to say I appreciate the point u are making with your series here. That things were forbidden simply because they had "pagan origins" drove me absolutely crazy since nearly everything has "pagan origins". The inconsistency in their applying this stupid principle was absolutely ridiculous and I think even they started letting up on alot of dumb things in the last few years.

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11

I got an APOLOGY!

by No Apologies in

jw
friends

the other day i called an elder and explained some of his shortcomings and how they had had a negative impact on my family.

he had little to say and did dispute what i had to say.. .

yesterday we received flowers and a card, with an apology!

Pathofthorns

very impressive. Strange how the simplest things can make the world of difference.

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