Posts by Pathofthorns

15

My dilemma

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

i have been associated with the jws all my life, recently turning 50 years old.

i was a true believer, a hard working elder, very zealous for the truth, a pillar in the congregation, and a fine speaker and teacher.

i even served in an extremely difficult foreign land for a while with my family.. i always knew we had our problems, but felt that it was my responsibility to effect change from within.

Pathofthorns

I feel bad for you because most of us faced a similar crossroads of sorts and it is probably the most difficult part of the journey.

Obviously your family would weigh heavily into the equation in whatever choice you make. I would suggest remaining on the fringes until you decide how you will slip away and you determine just how much support you will have from your family. Accepting the re-appointment will make things more complicated imo.

There rarely is a need to rush to make any decisions, and I found taking the time to reflect on all the possible outcomes helpful. I would try to leave on relatively good terms (okay, that's probably impossible) with minimal comment to local elders.

Path

17

Are JWs loosing it?

by eyeslice in

personally, i am more of a lurker than a poster, which i guess is because i am still very much on the fringes of the organization.

although many here have become bitter due to their experiences in the truth, i am sure that many of us look back on some really great times we had.

there was a time when there was a great feeling of optimism, new families (not just the odd individual here and there) were studying and coming along.

Pathofthorns

I think your assessment is really accurate. I think Sept 11 put a little more gas in the car for them but they will not be able to keep up appearances indefinitely. They are going nowhere slowly.

Path

28

JWs just knocked on my door....

by LDH in

jw
friends

ok so i'm on the phone talking to my friend, when i hear a knock so light i wasn't even sure if it was a knock.... (the doorbell, lighted, works just fine).. i open the door.

two attractive young ladies in their early 20s are standing there, don't even make eye contact.

one reaches into her bookbag and pulls out the lasts watchtower and asnake magazines and proceeds to ramble incoherently for the next 30 seconds.

Pathofthorns

One day these girls will remember the lady that kicked their asses and will understand why she did.

Path

33

Subtle Control Methods

by James2300 in

there have been a few threads on the subject of whether witnesses are a high control group or a cult.

some of the more overt methods of control have been mentioned, such as direct statements in the watchtower, the practice of disfellowshipping, the power elders have, and so on.

the results of these control techniques have also been mentioned; for example, many mention the intimidation, humiliation, fear, and powerlessness they felt either as a witness or while trying to leave.

Pathofthorns

Thanks for that bit on your background James. I think the way you made your exit is the best way to leave.

Here are some things I came up with...

I was thinking when they had the NW translation made with those green covers that could be another subtle control method.

Setting themselves apart from the crowd in minor yet somehow significant ways like saying Jesus died on a stake instead of a cross, or that he had no beard... These things are really nonsense and unimportant to the over-all doctrine and yet they give the impression of exclusive insight and knowledge and make them appear somehow more wise than mainstream christianity.

Forbidding the celebrating of birthdays so as not to draw too much attention to oneself.

Stating they are imperfect yet never apologizing for anything wrong specifically or mentioning any instance of recent error to give the impression they really are perfect and to prevent questioning of present teachings.

The Proclaimers book is an obvious example of whitewashing their history to present a misleading picture .

Their personal study program where an individual is expected to read the WT when it arrives in the mail, study the article prior to the meeting and then be present at the meeting and have prepared comments based on the information. All personal study uses the Society's publications which keeps the publisher in a closed information box preventing him/her from any outside thoughts and opinions.

The several reasons why individuals are expected to wear identification badges at conventions.

Stressing the words "obedience" and "loyalty" in a context where an individual makes the connection that obedience/loyalty to the organization and the men that comprise it is equal to loyalty/obedience to god. This creates a "following orders" mentality where no one questions what they are told and assumes that someone else is taking responsibility for the actions they are carrying out.

Conventions/assemblies leave the JW's with certain strong impressions and give a sneak preview of what life might be like in the new world. The squeeky clean image of Bethel also tries to mimick the paradise.

The circuit overseer arrangement.

Pioneer school

Anyway, these are a few areas that I suspect would fall into the "subtle control" category. I think this thread is one of the most interesting/facinating I've seen in a while. Love your analysis of the everyday things we just overlooked while being a JW.

Path

16

Jack Handey

by meadow77 in

jw
friends

for those of you familiar with snl, you will remember a great philosopher named jack handey.

here are my three favorites deep thoughts of all time.

share yours.

Pathofthorns

Joanna.. too much! lol

Path

33

Subtle Control Methods

by James2300 in

there have been a few threads on the subject of whether witnesses are a high control group or a cult.

some of the more overt methods of control have been mentioned, such as direct statements in the watchtower, the practice of disfellowshipping, the power elders have, and so on.

the results of these control techniques have also been mentioned; for example, many mention the intimidation, humiliation, fear, and powerlessness they felt either as a witness or while trying to leave.

Pathofthorns

Great thread!! Been enjoying this one James.... Rebel you are cracking me up!

Path

14

Feb1,2003 Question from readers

by hannibal in

"why does the bible say that a person should scream if theatened with rape".

has anyone posted this yet?

its rather unbeleivable.

Pathofthorns

I was surprised during Mike Pence's interview with JR Brown that he seemed to indicate that the policy was still in effect where in certain instances a woman could possibly be disfellowshipped for not screaming.

I cannot comprehend them clinging to this in view of how badly this makes them look and I don't understand how they constantly refer to these obscure parts of the law that was supposedly done away with.

I would also be interested in the scan of this article.

Thanks,

Path

8

Who aren't the hard nuts?

by Nathan in

most people i know basically believe that jws are unconvertible from their faith.

this, i believe, comes from their dissappointments and frustrations at being able to convince jws to convert, or even just to leave.

i work in the counselling field and we have a similar problem with 'difficult' clients who also don't seem to respond to anything.

Pathofthorns

I think the majority of those that leave are "raised in the truth" and thus had not freely made an informed choice to be a JW without coersion.

I also think many of those that leave are "free thinkers" that don't believe it is wrong to ask questions and seek answers. I don't think these people follow the crowd as much and actually care about what they believe and want to know why they believe what they do. They are uncomfortable being told what to believe and they are curious about the "forbidden" and desire to find out for themselves "why".

I think most of the factors in determining whether someone leaves this religion or stays are with the individual and not with the one trying to persuade. If I could offer advice to anyone trying to persuade someone to think outside the box, I would suggest them to be patient and subtle. Introduce small doubts by subtle questions and give them time to think about things. Leave them alone and don't bring these subjects up unless they do. Resist the hard sell.

Path

31

Ex Elders Aren't The Only Jerks With Attitudes

by minimus in

jw
friends

a lot of people that weren't elders show why they became witnesses in the first place.

they complain about the attitude of former elders but they never look at their own crappy attitudes.

maybe, it's because being a jerk has nothing necessarily to do with being a former elder.

Pathofthorns

The best elder is an ex-elder!

imo, only sometimes. I think it is human nature to get used to the privilege and perks that go along with position. It might be a mistake to assume that just because an elder abandons position that he will be able to abandon the attitude that went along with that position as easily. After years of service it just seems that those attitudes become a part of who a person is and for some it could take a long time to change.

There is often something u can still perceive in men that used to be elders. Imo, the biggest "identifying mark" (to use a WT word) is that they are not very open to "correction" or have difficulty admitting mistakes or altering a viewpoint to consider another view. Considering they have been groomed by the WT to be above accepting counsel from anyone except a few of the elite, it is hardly surprising.

Path

(interesting comments Blondie)

38

Do you really need liquor at a wedding reception?

by ronin1 in

jw
friends

this is in response to the post on december 10, : "a wedding gone bad"-.

the question: do you really need liquor at a wedding reception?.

here is my story:.

Pathofthorns

Although the host has every right to decline to have alcoholic beverages at a wedding, I can't see any other occasion where alcoholic beverages are more a part of the event both historically and culturally than a wedding celebration.

A wedding without alcohol is about as much fun as prohibition. Unless there are good reasons I consider it an insult to the guests and I go home early.

Path