the other day someone made a reference to "mountainous" proof of the existence of an historical jesus.. refusing to suffer fools gladly, the poster was challenged to produce this "mountain" and i haven't heard a peep of it - not that i'm surprised.
a bb friend with whom i carry on a regular private correspondence reminded me of this challenge, and i was wondering if the "mountain" or even a hillock is ever going to be forthcoming?
come on rex, where is it?.
It reminds me of playing Scrabble with someone who comes up with unreal words--you have the right to challenge the word. If it's not a real word (no proof), he loses points. There's a penalty for bogus words--and statements.
Rex: 0, Francoise et al: 10
Pat
that the wts is nothing more than a business is painfully obvious in the way many brothers seek 'positions'.
i was always highly doubtful of the 'appointed by holy spirit' bs that we were always fed.
appointments often came down to who kissed up the most to the decision-makers.
Hi Number 6 and pleased to meet you!
Your post was really on target. To have such untrained volunteers making such significant decisions is irresponsible.
What business do they have giving psychological advice, etc.? Once when I talked to a young elder about a problem (because he was my book study conductor) I mentioned I was also seeing a psychologist. His 'answer' was "What does your psychologist say?"
Hope you stick around and add to the board!
Pat
what publication is currently being studied at the congregation book study, and whereabouts in the book are they?.
thanks,.
comment
Hi Tru-woman!
Good to hear from you again. I completely agree with you that I thought I had some knowledge, but it's pretty superficial. After reading some 'worldly' literature, it's clear that there is a vast difference.
In fact, it seems that the writers of the WTBS literature read a book on some subject (such as last year's 'Easter Island, Earth Island') and then write a series of articles on that subjects. They merely are writing a synopsis of the book and then putting their own spin on it.
Now it's plain to see that one should just read the book and skip the WT spin.
Another thing is to just point out headlines about how ba-a-a-ad everything is and then put the Bible spin on it.
And I used to think they were so smart . . . .
Pat
that the wts is nothing more than a business is painfully obvious in the way many brothers seek 'positions'.
i was always highly doubtful of the 'appointed by holy spirit' bs that we were always fed.
appointments often came down to who kissed up the most to the decision-makers.
Hi Black Man,
You are a real plus to this board; sure glad you're here.
Ray Franz, in one of his books, says that the WTBS really does have a clergy class, just another name. The elders do it for the same reason a lot of clergymen do it (or priestcraft): prominence. Well, at least the clergy get paid! However, they do have to have a higher education.
Maybe it's true in this case: you get what you pay for (hee-hee).
Pat
i have always felt that requiring sisters to wear headcoverings was assinine.
jehovah won't strike you down for not wearing a headcovering".
word gets back to the co on his next visit that i don't let sisters wear headcoverings at the bookstudy when they read and he reams me out for it.
Black Man,
I enjoyed your thoughts. But doesn't it all boil down to the target audience of the Bible: men, man, and only males? The Bible is replete with incidences of demeaning women.
Some scholars contend the Hebrew scriptures are based on the Mithraic religion of the Romans in that time. The worship of Mithra was for men only. There are numerous similarities Paul from Tarsus (a center for Mithraists) wrote in his letters. A quick search on the web can verify that or a trip to the library.
So, my point is, the wearing of headcoverings for women is just one small instance of the low opinion religion in general, and the Bible in particular, has for women.
Pat
any u.k. elders who can provide me some inside information -- please contact me at [email protected] .
thanks.. alanf
Alan F,
Do you ever get responses to requests like this?
Pat
the watchtower society are masters in the art of logocide, a science so vital to all religious activity and other huckster enterprises.
one sterling example of such is found in the november 1, 99 issue of the watchtower magazine.
what he does in the polling booth is between him and his creator.. .
Thanks, Norm, for posting this. Seeker, that's a great demonstration of the hypocrisy it is.
Pat
many people seem to think that moral end ethics would be unknown if it werent for the bible.
the moral of the bible when examined thoroughly is to say the least, extremely relative.
looking at the hebrew scriptures it becomes clear that moral and law was pretty much a tribal and ethnic phenomenon.
This seems to be the quintessence of nit-picking. Norm, your post was perfectly clear to me. But the debates over semantics is exhausting.
The whole Bible is fraught with immoral behavior before, during, and after the law. Albeit the Christian times had less decreed.
There are way too many specifics of genocide, abuse of women, children, and slaves, and unjust behaviour (bring your son to the gates and have him stoned) to bother with, in my opinion.
It seems some are more interested in missing the point and having a good argument.
If 'Christian values' are necessary to a moral society, how have we been existing before? I think the idea is correct now: leave religion out of government!
I know, for one, I have less trouble with values and morals now after leaving. The reason is that it is what I choose to be for my own reasons. Not because someone else decrees it and I have to consult a talmud-like group for my decisions.
Good posts, Norm and Larc.
Pat
do we,can we,make time for ourselves?.
many of us exiting the wts were limited and restricted regarding our free time/vacation activities.most activities didn't meet with wts approval for various 'reasons'.
"worldly associations,is it 'wholesome'?
Hi Tina,
This is a nice topic. One of my favorite things to do now instead of my Bible-reading session, etc., is to read books on evolution, etc. I gained a lot of time for reading, which is my favorite activity.
Almost every weekend, I take the grandkids to the beach for hours of fun (and, of course, I have a book). Not sitting at boring meetings Sundays--am often relaxing at the beach.
It's pure luxury to have BOTH Saturdays and Sundays free!!!! Plus, no guilt as previously if missing mass--no, I mean meeting! LOL.
Everytime I think of the freedom I have now, I get a little thrill.
Pat
greetings and felicitations to all,.
tonight i attended my first al-anon meeting--it's for families of alcoholics.
i've been having trouble with my daughter and drugs.. but anyway, the meeting was in a catholic church area.
Hi Lisa,
Glad to meet you. I hope you have a long and happy friendship with all of us on the board!
Thanks for that perspective on growing up jw. We're all 'recovering jws' huh?
As for Al-Anon, it is hard to go to a 'meeting.' There are all kinds of words I've removed from my vocabulary too; like: encouraging, experience, comment, upbuilding, etc.
That is so true that when kids are denied normal socializing, they are apt to do things really dangerous, as you said. Just think if they were allowed to participate in sports and other normal kids' activities.
Oh, how I wish I'd done things differently!!
Pat
