Posts by Phizzy

19

Is it because of Pride or Loyalty?

by joey jojo in

in a recent effort to entice me back to meetings, an elder friend gave me the example of his dad.. he said that his pioneer/elder/ex-missionary dad went through the anticipation and disappointment of 1975 and yet, he kept going faithfully for decades afterwards.

the obvious point was that, if his dad can deal with disappointment, then, surely a nobody like me could do the same in regards to the scrapping of the 1914 generation doctrine, and all the other changes.

his 'encouragement' was to tell me that it was only me that felt like this, everyone else is fine and have no problems with the changes.

Phizzy

" Are you loyal to Jehovah and his spiritually directed earthly organization ? " That is the " Loyalty" question you must not answer to Elders when you are found to be waking up !

When I left I was convinced I could be " Loyal to Jehovah" but still detach from what I now knew was not His Organization. The second part of that question is "Leading language" , a typical mind control technique, it takes as a given that the JW org is god's org, not proven !

If you are still in the Org and reading this, please get over whatever holds you captive within it, and free yourself ! Freedom of mind and action is just the most wonderful thing !

24

The Myth of being "Spirit Appointed"

by BluesBrother in

back in the first century we read that the apostles would "lay their hands" on someone and the holy spirit would be imparted to that one.

appointments of older men were made in this way - at that time.

in modern times the wts has claimed that their own elders ,min.

Phizzy

I had often wondered about various things " Where is the Holy Spirit in all this ? " , especially when they did a 360 turn on Doctrine, but also with " Appointments", so many were quite obviously "political" , it was a lot easier to be appointed if daddy was an Elder etc.

My own case was amusing, I was appointed M.S, and was quite happy in those days to " serve my brothers", but never wanted to be an Elder. I was told by one Elder that many times they had wrangled about me being appointed an Elder, but something always held them back, I thought to myself, yes, the feeling that if they did they would be " holding an Asp to their breast" like Cleopatra. He told me they could not really find a reason why not, but I assured him I did not want to be, which I guess is why the matter was not raised again.

But really, where was the Holy Spirit in that ?

41

The 1950s NWT (1984)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i did a video on this subject once but feel this is a noteworthy topic.

to be honest the old nwt has come under sonsiderable attack from fundie morons attacking it's nt which was translated with a few revisals in 1950.the truth is john 1:1 and 8:58 and other texts, though despite being odd, are within the translation rules as are the inclusion of the word {other} since this was stated in the forward as an interpolation.

jehovah in the nt is odd but certianly lacking as other translations have added more yhwh.. so the ot?

Phizzy

I agree the NWT is quite hilarious in its earlier iterations, I do not have a 2013 Copy to compare.

On the matter of "the true god" in the O.T they accidently end up underlining that the Israelites early on were not monotheistic, at best they were henotheistic, not something the org. would wish to be highlighted !

I still find the Translation throughout to be clunky and difficult to the modern ear, but they have, perhaps wisely, erred on the side of accuracy rather than readability !

I always enjoy your Posts ! have you read the Paper that Doug Mason posted on his Nehemiah and Ezra Thread ? entitled " Persia and Creation of Judaism" , it is VERY enlightening as to when the Hebrew Bible was written, and by whom, not that it is all brand new info. but it sheds more light on it, and expands what we should think of as myth in the O.T.

https://jwstudies.com/Persia_and_Creation_of_Judaism.pdf

46

If Whites Are Inherently Racists.....

by minimus in

jw
friends

does that mean that blacks are too?

?.

Phizzy

Tribalistic and Racist tendencies may well be innate. Racist thought that takes root and brings forth action is taught.

8

Is the WT changing the 1914 teaching now?

by nonjwspouse in

i've been absent from the forum for about 10 months while deep into a divorce and working long hours.i heard mention in another thread about a change in 1914. is this actually being taught?

i'm very curious.

a extended non jw family member of my soon to be ex spouse finally decided to really do the deep investigation on the jw, and is in the phase of wanting to "ask the direct questions" and inform them of the facts of the jws.

Phizzy

" They can not change 1914 as if that falls the domino's end up with the GB is not gods chosen group. They can not have that." < THIS !!

But for many a year they have changed the way they present it, and the corollary Doctrine of the 1919 choosing of them as god's org.

Both are now presented as a "given", with no real explanation, or attempt to back them up from Scripture in any way that is really pertinent. Just some Scripture that mentions some sort of "End Time" idea. A WT came out around 2012 if memory serves, "explaining" 1914/19 but that just obfuscated the whole thing even more. Since then, it went back to being a "given".

I know this troubled some a bit that were converts late on in my membership, that they did not really understand the 1914/19 thing, but they were by that time too enmeshed, and Mind Controlled, to go back and question it.

19

Is it because of Pride or Loyalty?

by joey jojo in

in a recent effort to entice me back to meetings, an elder friend gave me the example of his dad.. he said that his pioneer/elder/ex-missionary dad went through the anticipation and disappointment of 1975 and yet, he kept going faithfully for decades afterwards.

the obvious point was that, if his dad can deal with disappointment, then, surely a nobody like me could do the same in regards to the scrapping of the 1914 generation doctrine, and all the other changes.

his 'encouragement' was to tell me that it was only me that felt like this, everyone else is fine and have no problems with the changes.

Phizzy

What a great Thread and a thoughtful opening Post Joey jojo !

I think the main two reasons are as you say, either Pride of Loyalty, plus a dash of the Mind Control working too.

The Mind Control works because first off , their minds are switched to " Protect" mode, so that any info. that comes their way that might be disturbing is dismissed as " Apostate lies", or they fend off thoughts by applying the "answer" fed to them by the Org, an answer easily proven to be wrong with minimum research, but they are taught not to do that either.

This self-inflicted ignorance, coupled with Pride and Loyalty, again personality traits that have been fostered by the Org, make it almost impossible for them to wake up. We see the same thing in operation in Political Cults as well.

I do not judge individuals harshly for this, I was one of those people for decades, never too proud to admit I was wrong, or the Org was, but I had a loyalty to the Org, being born in, and I was woefully ignorant, until the Internet helped and educated me.

46

If Whites Are Inherently Racists.....

by minimus in

jw
friends

does that mean that blacks are too?

?.

Phizzy

Racism is taught behaviour, as is religious belief, and the two go hand in hand quite often. Nobody is born Racist.

We are born not conscious of race or colour as being anything remarkable. We are born Atheists.

Wrong thinking, wrong feeling can be changed, unlearned. But only if the person who has learned these errors wants to change.

43

Polls Vs. Crowds

by minimus in

jw
friends

when i see polls suggesting trump has a 95% chance to lose the presidency, according to drudge report, which is now totally liberal, and i see the huge crowds of trump supporters as opposed to the 20 people showing up for biden rallies, i have to wonder what i should believe.

do i believe my lying eyes or am i totally messed up?.

Phizzy

"Polls v Crowds" , going by what happened in our 2019 General Election here in the U.K, I do not think either of those two is a reliable indicator.

I am thinking that Trump is bound to win, too many vested interests want it to be so.

21

2021 Regional Convention (will be prerecorded again)

by Designer Stubble in

**announcement october 28, 2020 for congregations** .

[read after the watchtower study the week of october 26, 2020.\] 2021 regional convention: many have expressed great appreciation for the special arrangement to benefit from the 2020 regional convention during this coronavirus pandemic.

because of the uncertainty of holding large gatherings in 2021 and the evidence of jehovah’s blessing on this year’s convention program, the governing body recently approved the following arrangements for the 2021 regional convention program.

Phizzy

Whoever writes those Letters must piss themselves laughing at the lies : " many have expressed appreciation...." A couple of nutters may have, the rest of the JW's found it both a chore and a bore.

Then the Big Lie " Jehovah's evident blessing.......... " What is meant by that is " Whoopee ! we actually made MORE profit this way than if we had staged normal Bore Fests !".

1

Ezra and Nehemiah

by Doug Mason in

in the course of my research into the second temple period, i gathered material on ezra, nehemiah, and the chronicler.. this file reproduces "peake's commentary on the bible".

the font size in the book can only be about 3 points with no space between the paragraphs.

i have provided two versions, one contains highlights that i made for myself, the other file has no highlights.. https://jwstudies.com/peake_s_ezra_nehemiah_commentary__with_highlights_.pdf .

Phizzy

I have just read the last link you gave, to Persia and Creation of Judaism. This is quite incendiary stuff ! and a real eyeopener !

I do not doubt that most of it is correct, although obviously some is real speculation, and presented as such, and much of the rest we could say is Scholarly Hypothesis,

But it rings so true ! and make so much sense ! The Zoroastrian connections of Judaism were mentioned on another Thread on here, and prompted me to look closer, this Paper ties it all up.

I said it was incendiary, because really it is showing that the present day Nation of Israel has no historic claim to the lands it occupies, earlier than 1948, when it was granted them. If anyone has an Historic claim, it is Iran ! ( Persia).