I will read and report back later Doug, glad to see this as a work in progress, an interesting subject.
Posts by Phizzy
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10Second-Temple Period Messiahs
by Doug Mason inwriting is a lonely discipline that is constantly beset with self-doubt and constant self-criticism.
that is the way it needs to be.. there are times when i need to reach out for help in the form of criticism from others.
this is particularly the situation with this material.. https://jwstudies.com/second-temple_period_messiahs.pdf .
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WT Steam Roll Faith Leaks
by Slidin Fast inwt sued faith leaks for reproducing 74 video items.
faith leaks apparently climbed down.
wt must be up there amongst the most litigious religious organisations in the world.. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/jehovahs-witnesses-resolve-copyright-dispute-with-faithleaks.
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Phizzy
Faith Leaks were too blatant, but maybe have done some people a favour, why protect this stuff from being republished ? why are they ashamed of them ? These questions may make some people think.
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Sin came into the world - not true?
by menrov inmatt 5:27 “you have heard that it was said, ‘do not commit adultery.’ 28 but i say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.. this means that even before someone commits an act that is considered a sin or wrong but does think about it, that person actually already committed that sin or trespassing.. now read this:.
rom.
5:12 so then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law.. this means that there was already sin in the world before adam and eve actually ate the fruit.
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Phizzy
Good point Joen75 ! the creator of that meme could have worded it better !
The whole concept of Original Sin was a late development in Jewish thought, so originally the Story of the garden of Eden was not written with that idea as part of it. The Story does not insist that Sin will be passed to all Humans explicitly.
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Rolf Furuli Disfellowshipped Last Week
by Sea Breeze inwell known norway elder and watchtower doctrine apologist, (rolf furuli) was disfellowshipped a few days ago for the crime of expressing opinions contrary to some watchtower dictates.. like wt leadership in the past, they have no problem eating their own..
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Phizzy
Really the young JW's are no different to young people brought up in a Political Cult, their minds have been saturated by the rhetoric they have heard over an over again, so alternative points of view cannot enter their minds.
A number of young JW's realise it is all a Pile of Poo, but stay for family and social reasons. Rolf Furuli comes from the generation of JW's that I did, we believed most of the JW Bull, and could defend it from the Bible, not in reality of course, but we made a good job of fooling the public that we could ! I even went toe to toe with a number of Vicars and Priests in my time. All matches were drawn at around 3-3. LOL.
Today's JW's of any age could not do that, the Core/Unique Doctrines have become so VERY silly !
Those Doctrines are indefensible from Scripture.
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Sin came into the world - not true?
by menrov inmatt 5:27 “you have heard that it was said, ‘do not commit adultery.’ 28 but i say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.. this means that even before someone commits an act that is considered a sin or wrong but does think about it, that person actually already committed that sin or trespassing.. now read this:.
rom.
5:12 so then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law.. this means that there was already sin in the world before adam and eve actually ate the fruit.
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Sin came into the world - not true?
by menrov inmatt 5:27 “you have heard that it was said, ‘do not commit adultery.’ 28 but i say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.. this means that even before someone commits an act that is considered a sin or wrong but does think about it, that person actually already committed that sin or trespassing.. now read this:.
rom.
5:12 so then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law.. this means that there was already sin in the world before adam and eve actually ate the fruit.
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Phizzy
" From the whacked out pharisaical oral teachings of Jewish elders, yes. From authentic Israeli history NO."
I think you need to have a look at the origins of the Original Sin Doctrine, maybe ? I have a feeling it is a late development in Jewish thinking ? Authentic Israeli History does not exist for the early days of Jewish thought.
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Sin came into the world - not true?
by menrov inmatt 5:27 “you have heard that it was said, ‘do not commit adultery.’ 28 but i say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.. this means that even before someone commits an act that is considered a sin or wrong but does think about it, that person actually already committed that sin or trespassing.. now read this:.
rom.
5:12 so then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law.. this means that there was already sin in the world before adam and eve actually ate the fruit.
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Phizzy
I found this Jewish perspective on the A&E story illuminating, it is their story from their Scriptures after all ; "
The Aish Rabbi Replies:
Adam and Eve were punished according to their actions. In other words, God laid down the conditions for Adam and Eve to live in the garden, provided they would not eat from the Tree of Knowledge. However, if they were to eat from that tree they would be punished by experiencing death. (If they had not eaten from the tree, they would have remained immortal.)
This sets down the basic principle in Judaism of Reward and Punishment. Basic to this is that every person has the choice of doing good or bad. When a person chooses "good" – as defined by God – he is able to draw close to God. In other words, every individual has a chance to "gain salvation" through his own actions.
My understanding of Christianity, however, is that the Original Sin has infected all of mankind to the point where individuals are incapable of achieving salvation through their own initiative. Man is "totally depraved" and therefore his only hope of salvation is through the cross.
This belief is contrary to the teachings of Judaism. From the Torah perspective, an individual does not need to rely on anyone else to atone for them. In Judaism, sins can be "erased" altogether by sincere repentance and a firm resolution never to repeat the mistakes."
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Historicity of the Prophets
by HowTheBibleWasCreated infor many years i have sought to understand how the bible was put together.. thus my name on here.
i started out more or less in line with what many schoolars felt in both old and new testament studies and over the year my notes have flucuated with dates and probable authorship.
a few years ago i slid into minimalist or copenhagen school understanding of the texs but still retained a slight historicity of the prophets.
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Phizzy
As I said in my comment above, the Israelites were not in reality "Victors" in any way, and the "History" parts of their writing are deliberate Fiction to give a glorious past for the Nation to be proud of, a bit like the Nazis re-writing of German "History".
So yes smiddy, "wannabe" INDEED ! but not writing truth.
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Historicity of the Prophets
by HowTheBibleWasCreated infor many years i have sought to understand how the bible was put together.. thus my name on here.
i started out more or less in line with what many schoolars felt in both old and new testament studies and over the year my notes have flucuated with dates and probable authorship.
a few years ago i slid into minimalist or copenhagen school understanding of the texs but still retained a slight historicity of the prophets.
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Phizzy
It is my intention to cover a similar area of Study as you have carried out HTBWC, but I have too much on my plate at present, with other projects, plus a Uni. Course.
I am aware that most of the stuff presented as History by the Hebrew writers is very far from accurate, or what we actually call "History" today, the motive for writing a lot of it was to build a narrative that would serve to help the building of a Nation. Hence a lot of grandiose claims are made, as to the Conquest of Canaan, the size of David's and Solomon's Kingdom etc, easily refuted, along with fanciful stuff, like the Sun standing still. I guess many of the Writings fall in to different genres, but many "historical" details are known to be inaccurate, or doubtful, and contradictions as found between Kings and Chronicles for example do not help !
One Book that is known to be what you could almost term a fraud, is the Book of Daniel, pretending to be written in the 6th Century BCE and actually written in the mid 2nd Century BCE. The writer gets historical details wrong. It was written as a political Tract for its time, thinly veiled as an Apocalyptic Prophesy from centuries before, but no doubt the intended audience recognised it for what it was.
As I often maintain, the Bible is over 90% Fiction.
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How do you personally deal with your still in family JWS ?
by Finkelstein infor myself i just try to avoid them intentionally maybe see them once every couple of years on average.
they used to be easy going but over the last 10 years or so they got more cult like and distant and i'm really not bothered by that, maybe a bit.
they stick to their own or other members like they are their family so, its makes it unattractive for myself to connect and reach out to them anymore.
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Phizzy
I have decided recently that I will have no voluntary contact, or conversation, with any JW, even if they are family. I have disassociated THEM if you like, yes, necessary family business will have to happen.
But NO JW is welcome in, or will gain entry to, my Home. Family or not. They really are beyond the Pale as humans. They are Toxic, unprincipled, ignorant and hateful individuals, maybe not deep down in their genuine personality, but that is what they are all the time they are in the Cult.
They can Sod Off, and when they get there, they can Sod Off some more.
