Posts by Phizzy

189

What evidence is there for a biblical jesus?

by Touchofgrey in

is there any independently verified evidence that a miracle worker called jesus existed and did the things that the bible said he did?.

the four gospels were written by unknown authors many decades after the so called events, so can't be considered as eyewitness accounts.

i think that there may have been a apocalyptic preacher who was executed by the romans and the story evolved from their.

Phizzy

The whole question of whether there was an historical, real living person who gave rise to the Mythical Literary Figure we are presented with in the Gospels is simply a matter of mild academic interest, it makes no difference, one way or the other.

Let's just assume there was an itinerant, rabble-rousing, Jewish political activist man who the Writer of "Mark" based his Character upon, that does not make anything else at all, not one thing, in the Story true.

Just as an example take the literary character Sherlock Holmes, we are quite sure that Conan Doyle based Holmes on a man who taught him, but that does not make Holmes and the Stories true, and it does not make any other character in the stories true either !

So, Dr. Watson, Moriarty, and Mrs Hudson et al are no more real than Holmes himself.

And neither are the other characters in the Gospels !

The Apostles, disciples, villains etc. we find in the Gospels are as imaginary as is the Jesus figure.

189

What evidence is there for a biblical jesus?

by Touchofgrey in

is there any independently verified evidence that a miracle worker called jesus existed and did the things that the bible said he did?.

the four gospels were written by unknown authors many decades after the so called events, so can't be considered as eyewitness accounts.

i think that there may have been a apocalyptic preacher who was executed by the romans and the story evolved from their.

Phizzy

No, there is nothing I would grace with the word "evidence" for the "Jesus" of the Gospels.

Later references are only repeating the Mythos that had grown up since the time of Paul.

Had a person ANYTHING like the Jesus of Gospels existed, he WOULD have been written about at the time, even discounting fanciful miracles, someone who caused enough trouble for the Romans to crucify him would have been recorded, other trouble makers were written about, at the time they lived and died, and there were plenty of guys writing about such things, during the period this Jesus is supposed to have lived.

The Jesus of the Gospels is a totally Fictional Figure.

53

Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

by JohnR1975 in

is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

Phizzy

That is my attitude to to J.W relatives and old J.W friends who I feel need the membership of the Org. for their own well-being.

To these ones, it would be devastating if they did not have the association and activity involved in being a member, as they have NOTHING ELSE in life, having been subject all their lives to the strict, extremely rigid control of the Org.

If they left, or even became merely inactive and non-attenders, they would lose the respect they have from their fellow J.W's, and the support and friendship they have from them, which as we know, is entirely dependent upon you being seen as a "strong" member.

But as you showed Joe, all of that can remain, with little or virtually no real effort anymore for those who wish to take J.W life a little easier. It is now no problem, your fellow J.W's will either think you are doing more than you are, or if they are aware you are doing a little less than in past years, will make excuses for you.

Again , this will hasten the demise of the Org, but at least those J.W's who are as I described above may live out their lives retaining their support network, and have peace of mind.

60

The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

by aqwsed12345 in

1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

Phizzy

" the idea that only 144,000 will go to heaven or rule with Christ is based on a selective reading of the text that does not account for the larger symbolic context of Revelation."

Agreed, but you are ignoring what the Writer makes plain, he expect ALL his predictions, and the fulfillment of his symbolic words, to come about "shortly", they did NOT, so are all failed Predictions.

To expect a later fulfillment of already failed predictions is a very silly idea that many a Christian falls foul of.

And I repeat :

The idea of the "Great Apostasy" is a Myth.

53

Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

by JohnR1975 in

is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

Phizzy

All of this will thankfully hasten the demise of the J.W Org.

Basically the Rank and File J.W's are the Workforce of a Business Corporation. A bored and unmotivated Workforce produces the minimum possible to remain in the Employ of the Corporation. Such Corporations File for Bankruptcy in short order if they do not turn things around.

That is what we are seeing looming for the Org. now, moribund as is all Organised Religion, but also having a failed Business Model, they cannot go on much longer. Yes, with all the Tax breaks etc. they will limp on longer than the conventional business, but their days ARE numbered !

48

The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

by Kelley959 in

an interesting video was on youtube with a person claiming that the memorial date for 2024 was wrong.

so i consulted three different jewish calendars online and sure enough, he appears to be right.

i went back to 2014 and forward to 2027. they have the future dates listed.

Phizzy

The J.W org. claims something along the lines of taking in to account when the new Moon is visible in Jerusalem, and working from that to when the Passover would have been celebrated. Glibly ignoring the fact that they cannot predict the Weather, certainly a year or more hence. And glibly ignoring the other signs that were taken in to account to decide on the Date of Passover.

They do not actually use the same method as the Jews of the 1st century C.E used, they just do their own thing, as usual. Ignoring Facts, Evidence, and even Scripture.

Sadly none of this bothers any J.W who is a solid believer, I pointed this Info. out to a devout elderly J.W lady some years ago, she flounced off, throwing over her shoulder " I don't CARE if the Memorial is held on the wrong day !".

14

Another poster asked me to post this as they want to remain anonymous for the sake of the victims.

by karter in

hey karter can you post this for me?

as you know my ex wife and i adopted her brother at 7 years old when his parents passed away.. we brought him up a j.w but he left at 16 and moved in with his girlfriend.. it came out he had been interfering with our 3 daughters when they were very young.. he never got prosecuted becouse my daughters didnt want to ( i suspect their mother a hard out j.w has something to do with that) so basicly he walked free.. latter in life he left his girlfreind comes back to the j.ws and they welcome him like the prodical son and he marries a j.w.. if anyone reading this thinks the j.ws like to hide c.s a read on.. it came to my attention recently by 2 ex elders that had read the letter that followers him when he moves congros that it says the sex bettween him and my daughters was consensual..they were under 10 years old.. this were it gets disgusting.. i approach the p.o of my old congro and ask him who wrote the letter he said he had moved by that time go see another elder .. i did he didnt know as well and said for me to ring the branch.. i did and they were not interested in changing the letter at all basicly go away.. the offender has moved congros 3 times and every time they elders think my daughters under 10 went along with this pos.. not sure what my next move is as the branch here has closed down and they operate out of a diffrent country.. if anyone wants to ask questions ill p.m the reply to you..

Phizzy

The young age of the perpetrator is no excuse for what he did, and it showed that he had paedophiliac leanings.

He is possibly still inclined that way ??? and anyway whether he has perpetrated more similar acts as an Adult , or not, he still presents a Danger to the vulnerable in the Congregation.

He needs bringing to account, and some therapy no doubt. Also this should see the full light of day, because your daughters reputations have been unjustly sullied, and must NOT remain that way !

What IS disgusting about the Org. is that after all the CSA scandals, they still have these kind of perverts in their midst, and do NOTHING to protect the Lambs in their Flock.

60

The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

by aqwsed12345 in

1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

Phizzy

The Historically Reality is that there was no single "Christianity" in the 1st Century C.E, there were a good number of competing "Christian " groups. The Epistles of John and other N.T verses make this very plain.

So there was nothing to be an Apostate from that we can view as pure or original. The Christian group that prevailed over others they considered were heretics, was the group who styled themselves as "Orthodox" , meaning "Right way".

They proceeded to corrupt Scripture, as Bart Ehrman has ably shown in his Book, and to dictate what was correct Doctrine in their view.

So this is the only late 1st Century and 2nd Century group it was possible to be an Apostate from !

And there was no continuity in the holding of doctrines and interpretations etc. in this group ! It all constantly changed.

The idea of the "Great Apostasy" is a Myth.

53

Half hearted JWs compared to past generations

by JohnR1975 in

is it just me or has there been a massive change in jws of late?.

when i grew up in the cult they had a real sense of urgency and would do an hour minimum, these days it’s not even ten mins before coffee break.. same goes for everything else, it’s half hearted .

Phizzy

Yup, myself and many like me used to go toe to toe on Doctrine with people. I have done so with all sorts, including Vicars and Pastors etc.

I once had a chat with a Church of England Bishop, and ended up selling him the mags, we charged in those days , he asked "How much will you charge me for these ?", I replied "I will let you have them at Trade Price". LOL.

135

Rumour 144,000 literal number teaching to be abandoned at Annual Meeting

by slimboyfat in

say it ain’t so!

.

in one sense it’s a no brainer because the figures just don’t add up any more.. in another (negative) sense it’s a no brainer because it’s been fundamental to jws since year dot and might undermine the whole thing?

Phizzy

That, slim, is the very weak J.W argument.

I wonder if this rumour has some foundation ? many J.W's struggled to swallow the literal number idea.

One such, an eighty year old former Elder, who "stepped down" for family reasons years ago, told me, a few weeks back, he doubted it could be literal, but he added he feels ,still, that J.W's have got "most things right". Sad, in all other areas of life he uses Critical Thinking Skills , and Fact Checking properly, but gives his religion almost a total Free Pass.

How many more J.W's are there that feel this way about the 144,000 number ?