Forgive me but it sounds like the boy was also quite young.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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Another poster asked me to post this as they want to remain anonymous for the sake of the victims.
by karter inhey karter can you post this for me?
as you know my ex wife and i adopted her brother at 7 years old when his parents passed away.. we brought him up a j.w but he left at 16 and moved in with his girlfriend.. it came out he had been interfering with our 3 daughters when they were very young.. he never got prosecuted becouse my daughters didnt want to ( i suspect their mother a hard out j.w has something to do with that) so basicly he walked free.. latter in life he left his girlfreind comes back to the j.ws and they welcome him like the prodical son and he marries a j.w.. if anyone reading this thinks the j.ws like to hide c.s a read on.. it came to my attention recently by 2 ex elders that had read the letter that followers him when he moves congros that it says the sex bettween him and my daughters was consensual..they were under 10 years old.. this were it gets disgusting.. i approach the p.o of my old congro and ask him who wrote the letter he said he had moved by that time go see another elder .. i did he didnt know as well and said for me to ring the branch.. i did and they were not interested in changing the letter at all basicly go away.. the offender has moved congros 3 times and every time they elders think my daughters under 10 went along with this pos.. not sure what my next move is as the branch here has closed down and they operate out of a diffrent country.. if anyone wants to ask questions ill p.m the reply to you..
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135
Rumour 144,000 literal number teaching to be abandoned at Annual Meeting
by slimboyfat insay it ain’t so!
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in one sense it’s a no brainer because the figures just don’t add up any more.. in another (negative) sense it’s a no brainer because it’s been fundamental to jws since year dot and might undermine the whole thing?
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peacefulpete
Why not. They might have to get a second bottle of wine though.
I recall after the 'memorial' pouring the still full glass back into the bottle and giving it to the Elder who bought it. No one was ever interested in leftover crackers, however.
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Help I'm Being Repressed
by peacefulpete intoday's news included a small story about a libertarian post on x that endorsed the murder of vice president harris.
when there was outrage:.
demands for investigation after nh libertarian party shares threatening harris (msn.com).
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peacefulpete
Didn't waste time reading it all but is it a false flag?
(I edited my comment.) The point is to read all the available evidence and not to be quick to suspect conspiracy.
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Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 into me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.
my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.
but steve greg has armageddon down pat.
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peacefulpete
Rattigan...This may be a first but yes, that is how the Gospel John (16) deals with this. The 4 times repeated phrase 'little while see again' is defined as 'figurative'. It never clarifies in this section what was meant but we have to believe it is either reference to Jesus being with them in heaven or in a spiritual sense. Chapt. 14 promised the arrival of the Holy Spirit who in Johannine thought was another of the pleroma of God as the Word was. The initiated among the readers would recognize all of the story to be figurative.
I know it is a leap but read the Apocryphon of John to see how this conceptualization of Divinity progressed in just a couple decades in the Johannine community.
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Help I'm Being Repressed
by peacefulpete intoday's news included a small story about a libertarian post on x that endorsed the murder of vice president harris.
when there was outrage:.
demands for investigation after nh libertarian party shares threatening harris (msn.com).
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peacefulpete
Today's news included a small story about a Libertarian post on X that endorsed the murder of Vice President Harris. When there was outrage:
Demands for investigation after NH Libertarian Party shares threatening Harris (msn.com)
In a September 15 tweet, the New Hampshire Libertarian Party said, "We deleted a tweet because we don’t want to break the terms of this website we agreed to. It's a shame that even on a 'free speech' website that libertarians cannot speak freely. Libertarians are truly the most oppressed minority."
How can a group of people who live in the freest country in the world at the freest time in history believe they are the 'most oppressed minority"?
Copilot..gathered some responses to my query.:
A group persecution complex occurs when a group collectively believes that they are being unfairly targeted, oppressed, or harmed by others. This belief is often irrational and exaggerated, leading to a heightened sense of suspicion and defensiveness.
Key Aspects of Group Persecution Complex:- Irrational Beliefs: The group believes that they are being persecuted without substantial evidence. This can lead to a distorted view of reality1.
- Paranoia: Members of the group may exhibit heightened paranoia, feeling that others are constantly plotting against them2.
- Social Cohesion: The belief in a common enemy can strengthen group identity and cohesion, as members rally together against perceived threats3.
- Impact on Behavior: This complex can lead to defensive or aggressive behaviors, as the group tries to protect itself from perceived threats4.
- Historical Context: Past experiences of actual persecution can contribute to the development of a persecution complex.
- Leadership Influence: Charismatic leaders can amplify feelings of persecution to unify the group and consolidate power.
- Social and Political Factors: Societal changes, economic instability, and political rhetoric can all play a role in fostering a persecution complex.
- Religious Groups: Some religious groups may feel persecuted by secular society or other religious groups.
- Ethnic Minorities: Historical and ongoing discrimination can lead to a collective sense of persecution among ethnic minorities.
- Political Movements: Political groups may feel targeted by opposing parties or government policies.
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Who is the Audience
by peacefulpete instumbled upon another small observation today and for some reason i've been in a sharing mood.
lol.
compare the synoptic variations of this pericope.
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peacefulpete
Pick a page. There is a similar story found on every line of the Gospels.
touchofgrey...sorry I'm terrible at sarcasm.
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Who is the Audience
by peacefulpete instumbled upon another small observation today and for some reason i've been in a sharing mood.
lol.
compare the synoptic variations of this pericope.
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peacefulpete
Touchof grey,...the Synoptics are recensions of the same work. Just like the Gospel of Hebrews, the Gospel of Nazarenes, Gospel of Ebionites, Gospel of the Egyptians, the Gospel of the Apostles and others are literarily related versions. There were many revisions on a theme some took more liberties with their source document than others but none of them were "independent witnesses".
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Who is the Audience
by peacefulpete instumbled upon another small observation today and for some reason i've been in a sharing mood.
lol.
compare the synoptic variations of this pericope.
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peacefulpete
Stumbled upon another small observation today and for some reason I've been in a sharing mood. lol.
Compare the Synoptic variations of this pericope.
Mark 8..
Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.”... Jesus warned them not to tell anyone ...
...Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. ...If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”
Matt 16:
...he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah....
24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. ... 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels,
Luke 9:
Peter answered, “God’s Messiah.”...Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone.
23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. ...Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
Notice in Mark Just after instructing his disciples not to disclose he was the Messiah, Jesus calls a crowd and identifies as the Messiah, the Son of Man. Did the author of the revision later called Matt notice this and attempt to fix it by removing the crowd and have Jesus instead address just his disciples? It looks that way. Then the poor author of the revision known as Luke comes along sees both Mark and Matt and decides to simply obfuscate by saying "all".
Comparing the Synoptic authors allows us a peek into their minds and the decision process.
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Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 into me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.
my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.
but steve greg has armageddon down pat.
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peacefulpete
Now, I know that there is no way to prove the reconstruction I laid out but it does explain the odd flow of the section. Shifting from literal to metaphor, it also allows a possibility that an UrMark (early form of Mark) was written before the events of 70CE.
It's also perhaps relevant that the Gospels dance around a Messianic expectation that the Messiah would rebuild the Temple, (as we also discussed recently) and that language could have been easily reinterpreted as predicting the destruction of the Temple in 70CE.
I favor the idea that the early form of Mark included the standard apocalyptic language as it associates pretty well with the Son of Man motif that recurs throughout Mark. It is also simpler to suggest that an editor 'clarifies' and elaborates the older cryptic language than to see that prophetic language being secondary.
If that is so, then a redactor had only to very slightly modify 13:1-4. They simply removed the Messianic claim to rebuild the Temple. It could have read something like this:
As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!”
2 “Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down. and I will build it back in 3 days.”
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?”
The earth will quake, darkness and distress, pestilence and famine, the nations will roar like the sea. The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.This then would flow into the subsequent narrative of the arrest and charges of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of Man and to be the one who will rebuild the Temple.
After the events of 70 and 135CE the words might have taken new meaning. Hadn't he predicted the destruction of the Temple? But he couldn't have predicted to rebuild it, as this didn't happen. To deal with this the redacted Mark and Matt say the claim to rebuild the Temple never happened, it was a lie, John on the other hand dealt with this through the improbable suggestion he was referring to his body as the Temple.
Given the time that had past and the different nature of the 4th Gospel, it dispenses with the whole section. In fact, I suspect the author is chiding some who believed Christ was to immanently return to earth in some dramatic display.
John 16:
16 Jesus went on to say, “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”
17 At this, some of his disciples said to one another, “What does he mean by saying, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,’ and ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They kept asking, “What does he mean by ‘a little while’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”
19 Jesus saw that they wanted to ask him about this, so he said to them, “Are you asking one another what I meant when I said, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me’? 20 Very truly I tell you, you will weep and mourn while the world rejoices. You will grieve, but your grief will turn to joy. ...25 “Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.
The writer had effectively negated the whole topic as figurative. In some spiritual sense Jesus would be present with his followers, this text alone is not clear.
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Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?
by Vanderhoven7 into me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.
my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.
but steve greg has armageddon down pat.
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peacefulpete
When reading any of the three Synoptic versions we notice chunks of stock OT theophanic language salted amidst very specific details.
Some scholars have suggested that these chunks represent how the earliest Markan form actually read. That is, the response to the question posed to Jesus consisted largely of boilerplate OT theophanic (manifestations of divinity and judgement) language accompanying the appearance of the Son of Man:
There will be earthquakes ...famines...roaring and tossing of the sea...trumpet, darkness, failing sun and stars etc. Then the appearance of the Son of Man, which is itself a block of text from Daniel.
Exod. 19:16-18...thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, very loud trumpet blast ...mountain[b] trembled violently
Judg 5:4-5..the earth shook, the heavens poured, the clouds, the mountains quaked before the Lord
Is. 29:6..... the Lord Almighty will come with thunder and earthquake and great noise, with windstorm and tempest...
Ps.77:16-18 The waters saw you, God, and writhed; the very depths were convulsed. The clouds', thunder...the earth trembled and quaked.
Ps 18:7-18....the earth shook and trembled;..darkness, lightning. clouds.
Esther 1:1 (LXX)..voices and a noise, thunders and earthquake, tumult upon the earth.
Is 13:10..The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.
Ez 32:7,8...When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars: I will cover the sun with a cloud,and the moon will not give its light. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you;
Is 5:30...In that day they will roar over it like the roaring of the sea. And if one looks at the land, there is only darkness and distress; even the sun will be darkened by clouds.
Joel 2:10,3: 15,16...the earth shakes, the heavens tremble, the sun and moon are darkened. and the stars no longer shine. ...roar, thunder ...army of locusts
Amos 5:18-20,8:9-11...day of the Lord, darkness not light. I make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight....famine
And of course, Rev. draws heavily on passages like these and repeats the imagery to accompany divine judgement/appearances.
Back to Mark 13. Again, a reader can't help but notice a contrast between these chunks of OT theophanic language and very specific and far less colorful descriptions of being flogged, being in courts, betrayal by family, Jerusalem being surrounded by Romans etc.
It would make a great deal of sense to conclude the original form of Mark included only the boilerplate theophanic language, (earthquakes, lightning, famine, cosmic darkness etc.) culminating in the appearance of the Son of man from Daniel.
This has been discussed before, but as time went on and the events of 70CE and 135CE came and went, it would be only natural to literalize some of that language and add to it with details about the Jewish wars throughout the Roaman world, the devastating earthquakes and how Christians were suffering. The theophanic language of God's appearance being accompanied with earthquakes, turned into a prophecy of earthquakes.
It seems more likely Mark 13 was harmonized with the later recensions, Matt and Luke than Mark having been expanded prior to their use of it. It just pushes out the dating too far.
Microsoft Word - Detering Mk 13 JHC 50.DOC (radikalkritik.de)