peacefulpete

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Posts by peacefulpete

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  22

  Memory hole, international conspiracy, and the JW international network

  by slimboyfat in

  1. social
  2. current

  can anyone else who was around 15 to 20 years ago remember an odd story about jw missionaries being stopped at the swiss/italian border with american bonds worth billions of dollars in their possession?

  because i can find little to no information about it anywhere online, yet at the time i am sure i recall it being reported by different mainstream news sources, including the bbc.

  why do some news stories seem to disappear from the internet altogether?

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  peacefulpete

  The Ethiopian-Eritrean Evangelical Church has16 million members. The Armenian Apostolic Church has 9 million. So I guess you can say the JWs influence lies somewhere between the Armenian Apostolic Church and the Ethiopian-Eritrean Church.
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  19

  New here

  by AdamCzarnobay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i left the organization in 2017.. was in several congregations in the north west of england.

  i just wanted to say thank you to all of you that have posted on here over the years, it really helped me to see the truth about the organization.

  i lurked here for many years under an anonymous login and then finally plucked up the courage to write my disassociation letter.. adam.

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  peacefulpete

  Welcome.
• 
  39

  I've done it: Christmas Lights Outside

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  lets see if that causes a problem.

  i've been inactive for a very long time now (like 10+ years), so, i don't expect to hear anything from it, but my parents are worried i'll get df.

  lets see what happens.

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  peacefulpete

  Friends of ours celebrated, for and with us, our break from the controls of the WT. Emblematic of that break to personal freedom was our first Xmas tree. For us, the holidays are not only sharing in beautiful traditions but represent our choice to leave the church that forbid them.
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  408

  Is Jesus the Creator?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  that's what the word says.

  .

  colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

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  peacefulpete

  For another example of the Philonic use of the Logos concept:

  (205) And the Father who created the universe has given to his archangelic and most ancient Word a pre-eminent gift, to stand on the confines of both, and separated that which had been created from the Creator. And this same Word is continually a suppliant to the immortal God on behalf of the mortal race, which is exposed to affliction and misery; and is also the ambassador, sent by the Ruler of all, to the subject race. (206) And the Word rejoices in the gift, and, exulting in it, announces it and boasts of it, saying, "And I stood in the midst, between the Lord and You;"{69}{#nu 16:48.} neither being uncreate as God, nor yet created as you, but being in the midst between these two extremities, like a hostage, as it were, to both parties: a hostage to the Creator, as a pledge and security that the whole race would never fly off and revolt entirely, choosing disorder rather than order; and to the creature, to lead it to entertain a confident hope that the merciful God would not overlook his own work. For I will proclaim peaceful intelligence to the creation from him who has determined to destroy wars, namely God, who is ever the guardian of peace.

  WHO IS THE HEIR OF DIVINE THINGS XVII
  

  Yes Philo attempted to address the oxymoronic issue of the uncreated/first born.
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  408

  Is Jesus the Creator?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  that's what the word says.

  .

  colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

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  peacefulpete

  Regarding birthdays....If you suffer from overactive piety, just celebrate a 'child's' day (Job story) or your day of weaning, (Isaac story) or day of potty training, or day of first tooth....

  If you enjoy the pizza on 'employee appreciation day' but begrudge your children a special day, you have your head up your ass.
• 
  408

  Is Jesus the Creator?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  that's what the word says.

  .

  colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

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  peacefulpete

  
  

  The highly Influential Alexandrian schools can hardly be regarded as small and limited. But Kaleb's point that the Christian formulation of the Trinity doctrine was not the product of consultation with Jewish scholarship nor exclusively Jewish writings, is of course correct. My last comment was not made to prove the Trinity (or binarianism) was universally accepted within diverse Judaism, but as I said, that the Trinity was an attempt to interpret OT and related Jewish texts in light of more recent Christological elaborations in the figure of Jesus.

  As regards how widely various forms of two power conceptions were, Schafer's book Two Powers in Heaven, argues convincingly that conceptions of God as manifesting multiple characters were pretty widespread, not a small fringe belief. Either way the OT descriptions and conflations of God with angels was a contributing element resulting in later christologies, eventuating in the Trinity doctrine.
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  408

  Is Jesus the Creator?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  that's what the word says.

  .

  colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

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  peacefulpete

  I see someone gave me a negative. Was something in the comment incorrect?
• 
  408

  Is Jesus the Creator?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  that's what the word says.

  .

  colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

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  peacefulpete

  Why dont Jews believe in a trinity? I would think that the voice of the people that wrote the old testament would carry some weight and be taken into consideration by christians?

  JoJo....The Trinity doctrine was a later formulation, one that did in some ways offer a harmonization of various texts. It did not however actually represent any previous conception of God. As has been mentioned a number of times, scores of passages in the OT and many intertestamental works conceived their God as of an unapproachable infinitude that worked indirectly with humans and creation through the agency of an emanation or aspect/virtue of himself.

  Philo of Alexanderia famously honed the idea, but it was centuries older in some form.

  For instance Philo explains the Genesis 1:26 passage where God says Adam had become 'like one of us' as referring to his plurality of 'virtues' but are likened to 'beings'.

  The expression, "one of us," indicates a plurality of beings; unless indeed we are to suppose, that God is conversing with his own virtues, which he employed as instruments, as it were, to create the universe and all that is in it...But all these things are similitudes, and forms, and images, among men; but among the gods they are prototypes, models, indications, and more manifest examples of things which are somewhat obscure; but the unborn and uncreated Father joins himself to no one, except with the intention of extending the honour of his virtues.

  Now Philo was certainly reading into the text, but he did it through the lens of Hellenized Judaism. (In reality the 'Like one of us' was a reference to the divine council of gods, but that is another topic.)

  As former JWs it is difficult to accept that we had overlooked the many examples in the OT that personified the Dibbur/Word/Logos or the Kabod/Glory of God or the Angel of Yahweh etc. but we did. Interestingly after the Christian expansion of these concepts through the embodiment of Jesus, the Rabbis generally condemned the notion of emanations (second power theology) as too polytheistic sounding, though rarely the concept reappears in the Talmud, mainly as the Memra/Word.

  So no, the Jews did not have the Trinity doctrine, yet the Trinity doctrine was in fact an attempt to explain many aspects of Jewish writings.
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  37

  Prepare to get Pelted by Symbolic Hailstones

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/idhmflud3p4?si=9xc4svrhxslduwvz.

  so david schafer a member of the teaching commitee and a helper to the governing body has come out yesterday with a new video that goes through the king of the north, the hailstones message and other things in the wake of the possibility of a ww3 and especially now that tensions are escalating with russia so he is making quite a few end time arguments and i will be expanding on those one by one but today let's see what he has about the hailstones message of the end(video) so this is the paragraph in question, paragraph 14 from article 20 of the watchtower 2020 study edition: "sometime after the start of the great tribulation, “the kings of the entire inhabited earth” will form a coalition of nations.

  (rev.

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  peacefulpete

  .......Well, you know
  We all want to change the world
  You tell me that it's evolution
  Well, you know
  We all want to change the world
  

  But when you talk about destruction
  Don't you know that you can count me out
  

  Don't you know it's gonna be
  Alright
  Alright
  Alright
  

  You say you got a real solution
  Well, you know
  We'd all love to see the plan
  You ask me for a contribution
  Well, you know
  We're all doing what we can
  

  But if you want money for people with minds that hate
  All I can tell you is, brother, you have to wait.......
• 
  39

  I've done it: Christmas Lights Outside

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  lets see if that causes a problem.

  i've been inactive for a very long time now (like 10+ years), so, i don't expect to hear anything from it, but my parents are worried i'll get df.

  lets see what happens.

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• 

  peacefulpete

  Notformer...Ok coffee then. Is a former Mormon compromising their individuality by enjoying a caramel latte? How silly the idea when seen from an objective, dispassionate perspective. Rattigan's charge of 'following the world' is just the product of cultish us/them inside/outside thinking.