Posts by peacefulpete

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

The Jew, Philo described the Logos as an archangel and a secondary god around the time that the gospel of John was written.

Philo, like the writer of G.John, represents a bridge between Greek Logos and the Hebrew OT. He uses language familiar to Jewish readers like 'archangel' but does not suggest the Logos is a secondary god, in fact he argues against that. He/it/she is God's word in action. As such it not in the fullest sense all that God is but it is not apart from God either. A number of authors have seen in his comments an equivalence to John 1 even to the detail of the definite article.

Philosophy, especially one trying to use language not intended for that purpose is necessarily opaque. The 'Two Powers" conceptualization is in play, but Philo is clear he does not mean 'Two Gods".

But when it is said I am the God who was seen of thee 
in the place of God we must ask: "Are there then two 
Gods," as the phrase suggests? He that is truly God is 
one, but they who are loosely so called are many. Where- 
fore the holy Word uses the definite article of him who 
is truly God, and not of the many. In the present instance 
it is his most ancient Logos that is called God — not that 
the writer is superstitious about the application of terms, 
but because he sets one goal before himself to keep to his 
system. For no name belongs rightly to the Absolute, who 
is of a nature to exist simply, not to be described

I realize you have a prior conviction regarding the complete individuality in Jesus, and this resists the notion that Christ could be a personification of the Word of the God of the Jews. This is of course not the Trinity doctrine nor is it the Arian position, both were literalizations/rationalizations of the Christ figure of Paul and the earliest Christians, that is in a large way the result of the Gospel dramatization being mistaken as history.

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

That is a well researched piece. I'm sure you are correct that the Christ was understood as an emanation of God. As I'm sure you know, the Logos was understood in precisely that way by hellenized Jews like Philo. It would be difficult to believe the writer of John 1 was unaware of that and coincidentally used the identical expression.

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

FreetheMasons...So you read a 2500-year-old prophecy that says Yahweh would punish Egypt and dry up the Nile, until they turn to him and worship him, Assyria as well. And since it had no fulfillment, feel free to interpret this prophecy as metaphor? How is that different from Christians who did the same about 2000-year-old prophecies of the return of Jesus?

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

I like to think I'm a great resource 😁

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

I noticed you ignored the important bit about failed prophecy.

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

I'm assuming you didn't read the link provided.

In short, a failed prophecy in Isaiah 19 declaring Assyria and Egypt would convert to Yahwism and a 'stone' monument built to Yahweh in Egypt, and the publication of coded Pyramid measurements that seemingly contained scientific facts only God would have known, was all to coincidental to Russell's mind.

His fascination was not unique, it was shared by other Adventists of the day.

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

PYRAMIDOLOGY.

It was a fad. Not making excuses for anyone, but stupidity is different than demonic conspiracy.

167

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

peacefulpete

The WT doctrines are hardly a 'clearer understanding' of the texts of the Bible. Theirs, like all church doctrines depend upon selective reading and eisegesis. The Catholic church at least has a core tenet that revelation is progressive, (Progressive revelation (Christianity) - Wikipedia) that is actually a much more mature approach to the diverse collection of writings in the Bible. The WT basically glosses the writings and misses or disregards the changing character of Judaism and later Christianity.

Ironically, they then use a similar progressive revelation excuse for their own adjustments in doctrine.

9

L.A. D.A. Announces His Office Is Reviewing The Menendez Brothers' Conviction

by silentbuddha in

jw
friends

not sure if anyone really remembers this case, it was huge at the time.

the very interesting point though about this was that at the time the parents were known to be very active in the jw religion.

i also believe that the father may have been an elder(i could be mistaken, though).

peacefulpete

deleted.

59

Proof of two destinies for believers in the Bible, heavenly and earthly

by slimboyfat in

the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.

even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.

yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.

peacefulpete

Your mistake is assuming a single 'Biblical' opinion regarding the future of the earth. The classic Jewish notion that they would become vindicated and dominate the world lingered in some Christian quarters but lapsed away in others. Revelation as a collection of reworked Jewish apocalypse scenes retains the idea that after a global war of evil the mirror Jerusalem would descend and bridge heaven and earth. In reading the abundant Jewish apocalyptic writings and commentary one comes away with a blending of Persian and Greek concepts. The Persian belief in a global battle between good and evil combined with the Greek concept of a decaying natural world ending then renewed in cyclical fashion. Many of these writings use expressions such as 'great conflagration' or 'rolling up' of the universe to be followed by a new heavens and new earth. They did not mean these as simple expressions referring to government and society, no, the very fabric of the universe was refined by fire or violent change and replaced/renewed/regenerated. As this eschatological concept developed a few centuries prior to the Jewish Messianic concept, the two have an inevitable but loosely defined connection. Jewish scholars have debated the minutia for nearly 2000 years.

Unsurprisingly there were subtle and not so subtle differences in the details, objectives and the role of Israel in all this. It follows the same is true of the NT. It would seem obvious that some texts assume a similar conflagration and replacement concept. But in other circles the shift away from eschatological thinking is obvious. The Gospel John goes to pains to avoid language of future imminent destruction and features what's called a 'realized eschatology', the Kingdom was here and now, and his disciples could be part of it.