Intelligence cannot exist without something to perceive, create, learn, or feel.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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27
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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WA bill mandating clergy report abuse clears Senate floor
by blondie inhttps://columbiabasinherald.com/news/2025/mar/24/wa-bill-mandating-clergy-report-abuse-clears-senate-floor/ .
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peacefulpete
As I understand it, the Catholics carved out an exception with the claim that the sacrament of 'confession' was a protected religious freedom. Since they defined confession historically as a strict confidence and foundational tenet of the faith, it was successfully ruled the price of religious freedom. Many priests have in good conscious sought to reengage the confessor of a serious crime in nonsacramental setting thereby freeing the priest to follow church tradition and do what is right for society. The WT convinced the courts that they had something similar. Yet they extended the definition of confidential to included charges and complaints of serious crimes by victims to any Elder. The courts should have seen through it but given the reluctance to give the perception of imposing upon religious freedom they generally hadn't.
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27
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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peacefulpete
Ancient Jewish attempts to impose a logic to it all resulted in the Kabbala. God ultimately becomes everything and nothing at once. A divine infinity without description, parallel or name that emanated 'other' from itself, whereupon aspects of the divine force are in all and sustain all, good and bad. Said another way, everything is God. In any sense meaningful to humans, it (God) did not exist prior to this emanation of itself.
Meaningless semantic exercises are fun.
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27
The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity
by slimboyfat inrowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
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peacefulpete
If God acted out of love by making 'others', did he lack love before?
If there is nothing 'other' to perceive and compare, can a pre-manifest God be said to have perception?
Did God have senses? What purpose did those senses serve prior to anything of which to sense? Did God then give himself senses so as to perceive his own creation and his superiority over it?
Before anything was manifest and no 'other' to manifest to, did God's very existence have evidence?
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55
What the new JW light position really is 👍
by ElderBerry ini’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.
as my fellow elders are.
we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.
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peacefulpete
MikeJw or ExBethelite or Elderberry, (whatever you want to be called), your argument is that many people compromise to keep peace is not news to us. Nor will I condemn anyone having chosen to stay in the background and keep their head down if they genuinely feel that is best. However, many in that position are not even aware of just how much they have compromised. They know nothing else and are possibly terrified of change. They may also have lingering, paralyzing fears of apocalyptic doom.
Those that chose to fade, walk or stomp away didn't do it just so as to be free to do birthdays openly, they wanted their lives back, with a clear sense of self-direction, and intellectual honesty.
When my father passed recently, I was compelled to support my mother and hold her hand during the JW funeral. Being there did not invoke within me a sense of warm nostalgia; the opposite, it was creepy and offensive. The trigger words and repeated mantras about paradise and preaching were every bit as off-putting as the conservative Lutheran funeral I had been to not long ago. I'm sure you are right that many in the KH, as well as many in the Lutheran church, didn't really believe what was being preached at them. It is also true that many would never openly confess that.
I'm not someone who envies those people.
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New World, New World Order, New System of Things
by blondie inthe wts has used to above terms, over the years, some more preferred in certain time periods.
more though, but these occurred to me first.
also the terms "new world" and "new world order" have been used by some us presidents and other leaders..
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peacefulpete
Whether it's politicians or clergy doing the promising, the New World Order only has room for some. -
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What the new JW light position really is 👍
by ElderBerry ini’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.
as my fellow elders are.
we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.
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peacefulpete
Slimboyfat....If I was passionate about saving the whales and spent years actively and financially supporting a 'Save the Whales' organization only to learn they in fact were not what they appeared to be. My money had been only spent on real estate, self-promotion and colorful brochures. My time and efforts had not saved a single whale. Would I not be the greatest of hypocrites and charlatans if I subsequently continued promoting the organization and recruited others to donate to it.
How much more would that be the case if lives were involved.
I do not pretend that the WT or the Christian Scientists or the Hari Krishnas, or any of the world's many delusional or controlling sects, are going anywhere. I can only control where I'm going.
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What the new JW light position really is 👍
by ElderBerry ini’m still an elder and i consider myself jw light.
as my fellow elders are.
we don’t throw our weight around like elders used to in the past, it’s all very easy going these days.
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peacefulpete
A year ago, Elderberry, you were angry at the lies and wasted years of your life preaching. You were an innocent victim then, now your choice to continue as a leader in their deception and promotion of their activity makes you no different from them. Those who look up to you and believe your talks or are persuaded by the WT you directed them to, are the victims. -
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Ebion
by peacefulpete inearly christianity was every bit, if not more, diverse than christianity today.
one of the very early sects was named the ebionites.
we have unfortunately nothing left of their own writings apart from a few quotes from what epiphanius believed was their recension of matthew.
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peacefulpete
Hey Phizzy, the ancient Ebionites are long gone, according to google there have been a few groups using the name in modern times.
The point I was making was the all too human bias and slander of other branches of Christianity. So much of what they wrote was based upon mistaken identity, ignorance, rumor and speculation. In this case an imaginary evil historical founder was assumed and embroidered with an entire biography and fictional narrative. The longer the legend perpetuated the more detailed it became. It would be like assuming there was an historical person named Angle starting the Anglican Church then attacking his character and personal life. Reading Epiphanius's hate filled descriptions tells me much more about him and his movement than his opponents.
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Ebion
by peacefulpete inearly christianity was every bit, if not more, diverse than christianity today.
one of the very early sects was named the ebionites.
we have unfortunately nothing left of their own writings apart from a few quotes from what epiphanius believed was their recension of matthew.
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peacefulpete
Early Christianity was every bit, if not more, diverse than Christianity today. One of the very early sects was named the Ebionites. We have unfortunately nothing left of their own writings apart from a few quotes from what Epiphanius believed was their recension of Matthew. Tertullian mentions Ebion the founder:
...This view of the matter could have suited
Ebion, who determines that Jesus is a bare man, merely of the
seed of David, and therefore not also the Son of God-...Now let us put our case less figuratively. It was not feasible for the Son of God to be born of human seed, lest, if he were wholly the son of man, he should not also be the Son of God, and should be in no sense greater than Solomon or than Jonah, as in Ebion's view we should have to regard him.Pseudo-Tertullian in Against all Heresies says Ebion was a successor to Cerithus:
His successor was Ebion, who did not agree with Cerinthus in every respect, claiming that the world was made by God, not by angels, and because it is written, No disciple is above his master, nor servant above his lord, he also proposes the law, namely to exclude the gospel and vindicate Judaism.
Epiphanius' ' Panarion' describes in rather insulting fashion the founder and leader of the sect Ebion.
Following these and holding views like theirs, Ebion, the founder of the Ebionites, arose in the world in his turn as a monstrosity with many forms, and practically represented in himself the snake-like form of the mythical many-headed hydra. He was of the Nazoraeans’ school, but preached and taught other things than they...... Ebion, in reverse, took any and every doctrine which was dreadful, lethal, disgusting, ugly and unconvincing, thoroughly contentious, from every sect, and patterned himself after them all...... For although he is Samaritan, he rejects the name because of its objectionability. And while professing himself a Jew, he is the opposite of the Jews.....In the first place, he said that Christ was conceived by sexual intercourse and the seed of a man, Joseph —I have already said that he agreed with the others in everything, with this one difference, his adherence to Judaism’s Law of the Sabbath, circumcision, and all the other Jewish and Samaritan observances. But like the Samaritans he goes still further than the Jews. He added the rule about taking care not to touch a gentile; and that every day, if a man has been with a woman6 and has left her, he must immerse himself in water— any water he can find, the sea or any other. Moreover, if he should meet anyone while returning from his immersion and bath in the water, he runs back again for another immersion, often even with his clothes on!... he first lived in a village called Cocabe in the district of Qarnaim—also called Ashtaroth—in Bashanitis. There he began his evil teaching....Ebion too preached in Asia and Rome,...
Epiphanius adds a narrative involving the Apostle John and Ebion:
...St. John himself was preaching in Asia, it is reported that he did an extraordinary thing as an example of the truth. Although his way of life was most admirable and appropriate to his apostolic rank and he never bathed, he was compelled to approach the bath by the Holy Spirit who said, “Look what is at the bath!” To his companions’ surprise he actually went to the bathing-room, approached the attendant who took the bathers’ clothes, and asked who was inside in the bathing-room. And the attendant stationed there to watch the clothes—some people do this for a living in the gymnasia—said to St. John, “Ebion is inside.” Becoming disturbed at once and crying out John said in an aside audible to all—as a testimony in evidence of undefiled doctrine—“Let’s get out of here in a hurry, brothers, or the bath may fall and bury us along with the person who is inside in the bathing room, Ebion, because of his impiety.”
So here find the Church Fathers have detailed a biography for Ebion including his mentor, his hometown, mentions his parents giving a prophetic name to their son, his preaching travels and his teaching. He caps it off with an account of John's personally meeting the man.
Problem is there was no man named Ebion, his is a phantom of the later writers, a purely assumed personage. The name Ebionites meaning 'poor' was adopted by the group as they shared an strict asceticism involving renouncing material things. They did not have a founder named Ebion.