Posts by peacepipe

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

peacepipe

Very enlightening- I'm serious! I think it's great to get all these different ideas and views all in one place and you never get interrupted!
UnclePenn, I must comment you seem to be an interesting fellow(is that really you on the picture? you are a guy right? if not sorry LOL)
Anyhow, I'm not sure but you may be a little bit like me. I ask these questions. . .not really any major intellectual brain busters but it's like I have to know what every single other answer could possibly be to my question and sometimes it drives people nuts. ESPECIALLY my HUSBAND who very recently I plaqued him with questions about the NEANDRATHALS (which is now showing on the Discovery Channel) and he is a good catholic boy so of course there are many questions to be asked there and he begs me to stop. It's so funny sometimes. But if it doesn't make sense to me then how can I believe it? AND THEN. . . . .over to TINA. . .on that same thought but leading into one of your thoughts: You mentioned the Plato's Myth of the Cave. That's one of my whole things with religion which I'll not get into now but it's like my hubby: He has his belief(which is fine), it makes him happy (which is fine), our children are all caught up in it(which I'm not sure is fine anymore) but he'll go NO further than that. Forget about asking him any kind of question like: Were the Neandrathals before or after Adam & Eve? He just doens't want to think that far. He has no use to do so. Makes me feel like I'm a lunatic. It drives me crazy. Anyhow, I was wondering if you or anyone saw the movie "the Matrix". It was interesting to me because theres all these people like us living happy in their little world going about their business BUT in REALITY they are cocooned by aliens using their bodies as energy and the people are only DREAMING that reality and there are only a handful of minds who dare to escape and go to the TRUTH which isn't all that pleasant. However, most people would rather be in that dream than know the truth. It was a brain drain movie for me. Makes me have to think to much.
That's all I have to say tonight. Much more to talk about but time for bed.
Night All. :)

PeacePipe

Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty

4

Guilt

by FreeFallin in

thought i should post here as my problems are miniscule compared to what's going on in the world right now.

i feel so disloyal to jehovah by reading all the info on this web site, but what got me to post here in the first place was the information on the un.

i guess i'm trying to tell myself that it's reaally not that bad, that they had a very good reason for forming a slight alliance with the disgusting thing, etc.

peacepipe

(((FreeFallin))))You sound really sad in your post. I'm not really sure what to say to help you feel better but I don't think a god of love would want you to be so unhappy in serving him. It doesn't really sound like your fullfilling your own needs or others if your feeling this way. It's not an easy road to change thought processes that have been with us for a long time. It sounds like you are a sensitive person and though you didn't really say that anyone is directly hurting you in your congregation I'm not sure anyone is helping you either. If your having doubts you have come to a good place but I will tell you it is not an easy path to take. There are alot of different people with alot of different thoughts and ideas and sometimes is seems like things get harder by posting and lurking here because you get so confused about what is the right road to take. But the good thing is that YOU are deciding on that road and not only one source is making the decision for you.
Hope to hear from you more.
Remember, it is over time that ourselves develop and it is over time that ourselves can change.

PeacePipe

Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

peacepipe

Farkel, I was just thinking, maybe looking at that face with the tongue hanging out just gives me the impression of na, na , na, na, na. And that impression stays with me when I read your posts. Plus that guy always gave me the creeps. I thought he was demonic.

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

peacepipe

Tina,
Hi again. I did an edit and took "ATTN TINA" out of subject heading. I just wanted to make sure you saw the post since it was an extension of another thread. Also I wanted to apologize if I came across. . .well I don't how I came across but nonetheless when I was posting last night I was a bit cranky and alot sick of this board(no offense anyone) I was tired of trying to come across as being nice and just wanting to talk about stuff that interests me because I always have that one person or so who says something rude or sarcastic(not paticularly your post but just in general) and I figured well, if they want someone to argue with then I'll argue-I'm in the mood. But frankly I'm just here to learn, and talk with people of like interests and maybe make some friends. I can tell you I'm not a professional poster. This is my first and only chatting place.

LDH/Farkel,
I will read up on Secular Humanism. Farkel, the way you said about me not knowing about it was, I take it, an insult but that's ok. If that's what you need to say so be it. If I'm not mistaken you've insulted me before on this board as well. Once again if that is your purpose, fine. If not, sorry if I misunderstood. LDH, when I have time I'll check into website you suggested. Maybe I'll let you know how it goes, maybe not. I'm finding this board is becoming to time consuming and I need to try and not get so caught up in it. But I do appreciate your information.
UnclePenn, Julie, Bridgette, Silverleaf, Waiting: Thanks all for your replies. You all seem to take it a little easier on us sensitive types. :)
Bridgette, especially thanks. You always come across to me as very understanding to my strange and twisted mentality even if it is not up to par in comparison to some of the other enlightened minds here.

(((((hugs to all))))) and this is why: despite any differences, we all have a common bond which is posting on this board. I unfortunantly have a negative feeling about our near future and I am concerned for the entire inhabited earth. No one can afford to have any anger in their heart at this point. Love can only start with one to another, in our homes, on our computers and hopefully maybe somehow it will reach to the far ends of the earth and maybe just maybe all will be well. I just don't know.

PeacePipe

Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

peacepipe

Tina,

You posit what if atheists ran the world,then proceed to describe a hedonistic anarchic behaviors.

My post said(you can find it in whole at the beginning of this thread)

I know that some hospice workers who work with terminally ill patients use visualization methods to help the patient cope with their death. It puts them in a safe place of comfort, love and peace. I often thought that is the sole purpose of religion. To get your mind to skip over this horrid realization so you can live your life to the fullest without having to be troubled with that black cloud. Because I asked the question in another post what the world would be like if all people were atheists and there were no religions. What would be the moral thread to keep goodness in society? Why would some people care if all they did was get high, drunk, sleep with whoever the want, kill others etc. If you could get away with it then so what? You live, you die. Get what you can because it's all you'll ever have.

and I said:

If we had a world of no religion, Everyone was an atheist, Religion was long gone. . . .

I said nothing about if atheists ran the world. I was asking a hypothetical question of WHAT WOULD THE WORLD BE LIKE IF ALL PEOPLE WERE ATHEISTS AND THERE WAS NO RELIGION. However, if I was misunderstand that is fine. I write as the words come to me I don't sit here and write out a rough draft, good copy, final copy, proofread etc. So that stands as my original question which I gave my answer to what I think it would be like. I thought it would be interesting to see what others would think about that kind of world not just sit and debate over whether or not I was picking on atheist. I am an atheist Tina. I have no strong belief in anything right now. I am a good person. I do have a loving, happy family of my own. But there is alot of bad in the world. I just don't know what the answers are but it is fun to hear others thoughts on the matter.
Thanks again for your thoughts

PeacePipe

Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

peacepipe

I need to put my two cents in about this even though I'm reading it a couple days after the last post.
When I think of the death of those I care about I usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.
Those who I've been close to that have died that I'm questionable about them actually going to heaven I feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.
When I REALLY think about my own death I have a panic attack. I don't think I'm anything special that deserves to live past this life. I don't think I'd have any great contributions to make in any everlasting life. However, the feeling I get in my very being when I come to the realization that theres nothing else to think about once your dead because your dead forever and ever and ever and ever and ever to all eternity is nothing short of a panic attack. It's just the thought of there being nothing else, not a thought, nothing for ETERNITY scares the living crap out of me. ETERNITY is a long time. What would I do for eternity? Well nothing, I'll be dead. Well, maybe there'll be something else down the road. . . .No, there's not I'll be dead. Well, what will I do all that time?. . Nothing, I'll be dead.
Up to a certain time in my life I felt when you died there was still something else. When your young you don't quite fathom eternal nothingness because of music, shows, books and an ongoing imagination. I used to think about suicide and being in my casket and listening to my music and keeping tabs on those I love- not so bad. But at some point, if you really think hard about it, that realization that there'll be no music hits you hard. (well for some of us I suppose- not everyone)
I know that some hospice workers who work with terminally ill patients use visualization methods to help the patient cope with their death. It puts them in a safe place of comfort, love and peace. I often thought that is the sole purpose of religion. To get your mind to skip over this horrid realization so you can live your life to the fullest without having to be troubled with that black cloud. Because I asked the question in another post what the world would be like if all people were atheists and there were no religions. What would be the moral thread to keep goodness in society? Why would some people care if all they did was get high, drunk, sleep with whoever the want, kill others etc. If you could get away with it then so what? You live, you die. Get what you can because it's all you'll ever have.
I'm tired, this is a stupid reply but maybe someone will reply back that just might give me . . .something. . .I don't know what. Sometimes when your mind tells you something you have to weed through all the thoughts that come in to find just one bud that may blossom into something useful.
PeacePipe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May I ask why you think atheists are not moral people? That they don't care about their world and the people in it? A world of humanists would probably be a whole lot better and tolerant. It isn't atheists and humanists that have caused the atrocities down thru history. It's been religionists who are convinced that there way is the only right way. Look at all the holy wars,the crusades,the exploitation and conversion of indigenous peoples. The destruction of their cultures.Look at Afhgan and other countries today.
Humanists/atheists attempt to help all regardless of any religious affiliations. They believe that with reason,logic and compassion we can all work together to make this world a better place. I have to say,in my life,that the most caring,compassionate,reasonable people are these. Their love for humanity isn't limited by relgious tnetes and policies. I don't know who you know personally,but the humanists I know have the highest regard for life,and do not live the hedonistic life that you attribute to them. I think your view or definition of atheism comes from the religious folk. If time allows check out a secular humanism website. read their charters and hopes for humankind. You will be greatly surprised. Tina
Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."
Tina

Tina,
Thank you for your thoughts however:

May I ask why you think atheists are not moral people?

I asked the question in another post what the world would be like if all people were atheists and there were no religions. What would be the moral thread to keep goodness in society? Why would some people care if all they did was get high, drunk, sleep with whoever the want, kill others etc. If you could get away with it then so what? You live, you die. Get what you can because it's all you'll ever have.

NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT I DID NOT THINK ATHEISTS ARE MORAL PEOPLE. I asked the question what would be the moral thread to keep goodness in society if there was no religion.
*I think of the terrorist children who in recent years have killed themselves and their schoolmates because they had NO HOPE!. They did not FEAR DEATH. They would rather have a moment of FAME and be DEAD than live their life for their life had NO PURPOSE to them.
*I think of the teenagers across America who I was one of at a time who go out and PARTY till they are so drunk or high that they can’t see and then get in a car and kill themselves or their friends or strangers or drink themselves to death!
*I think of the freaking people who have kids and dump them off on whoever they can so they can go self indulge themselves forgetting to go to their childrens milestones or important events or give them love and support. Instead they’d rather be out partying or looking for love.
*I think of the sad people in the world who have been hurt so bad they may never be able to shake it.
*I think of a 10 year old telling me he wishes he were DEAD.
Tina, these people are anybody. Christians, JW’s, humanists, atheists, anyone.

It isn't atheists and humanists that have caused the atrocities down thru history. . . . . . . Humanists/atheists attempt to help all regardless of any religious affiliations. They believe that with reason,logic and compassion we can all work together to make this world a better place.

Yes Tina that may be true of SOME atheists/humanists but it is also true of most religious groups as well including many JW's. I’d say you could find a lot of instances in history of mass murder, murder, terrorists, wars etc that were not driven by the RELIGIOUS FANATICS the same as you can find many that were driven by RELIGIOUS FANATICS.

If we had a world of no religion, Everyone was an atheist, Religion was long gone. . . Well guess what, it would be human nature to start divisions. There would be the Moral Atheists who were for peace, love and harmony. There would be the Immoral Atheists who would start their own crime rings and terrorist groups because they wanted to rule the world. There would be the Inbetween Atheists who would consist of hundreds of groups of varying degrees. The Moral Atheists would then have to start teaching their beliefs on the Immoral and Inbetween atheists and thus a religion would be one day be born.

I, like you, wish the world could be peaceful and kind and that John Lennon’s “Imagine” could be a reality but I don’t believe that will ever happen. There are always going to be good people, bad people and a little bit of both people. I know most people on this thread have been hurt by JW’s but here is a reality check: There are a lot of people who have been hurt just as bad or worse by Christians, Catholics, Protestants, Atheists etc. NOT ALL of any of those groups are bad. The majority are good, moral people who use their religion as a means of coping with day to day life, death and injustices. The smaller percentage hides behind it to create havoc and advance their own pleasures. I include Atheism in that thought because it is a religion. It has a belief system. It just hasn’t evolved yet into the many outlets that Christianity has YET.

And I would like it to be known that I am Nothing yet I am Everything. I am Looking but I have not Found. I pull the good from the bad and sort through it. I was not brought up with only one faith but many. I do not make my comments about “hedonists” based on the religious folk. I base my comments on my own morals, what I think is right and wrong and the trials and tribulations I have faced. I have many friends with many different beliefs. My friends are good but not perfect. I do not judge them based on “Christian or Religious” dogmas because it is not my place to judge. Some christians make me want to puke. Some people on this board make me want to puke. A lot of times I make myself want to puke. But you gotta take the good with the bad that’s just the way it is and will always be.

Peace be with you All. . . . .

PeacePipe

Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty

8

"Its Exciting!"

by Defender in

jw
friends

"although the terrorist attack was horrific, but i must admit its exciting!

" said one jw elder i spoke to on the phone yesterday.. he said that there was a sister that has been a jw for more than 50 years that said "at last, something is hapenning.".

(btw, he told me that most congregations in the us have been instructed that when talking to people, they should not bring up the issues of blood or neutrality.

peacepipe

(BTW, he told me that most congregations in the US have been instructed that when talking to people, they should not bring up the issues of blood or neutrality.) Can anyone confirm this?

Defender, I can reply to this to say that at the service meeting I was at which was the first Saturday after the tragedy everyone was very sad and somber. They were concerned about what had happened and not happy or excited about it. The person who prayed included in his prayer thoughts on the tragedy and how terrible it was and he prayed for the ones who were killed or affected by the tragedy. The elder leading the meeting discussed that he got a call from whoever who was relaying direction received from Bethel that in service NO JW issues were to be discussed but those going out is service were there to provide comfort and answers. Since the JW's couldn't show their support in ways of blood, patriotism etc they found that what was lacking was an "answer" to this tragedy and people were going to be looking for spirutual answers and guidance and that was the JW's way of helping. They also got out past AWAKE/WATCHTOWERS and TRACTS that had topics concerning the recent events. I know there are those of you who will say negative things about this but as an outsider I was relieved to get the feeling of warmth and genuine concern that was displayed.

I have also had the opportunity to ask many witness how service had went the last couple weeks including the day of the above mentioned service meeting as well as the days directly following the tragedy and they all said nearly everyone the called on had questions and wanted to talk.

I've also found it interesting that the book study of Isiah has seemed to so much coincide with what has been going on though I realize it may just be a coincidence or a watchtower illusion. Not sure.

PeacePipe

Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty

31

Why are JWs scared of death?

by NikL in

jw
friends

i have been thinking a lot lately about death.

this is not surprising considering the turn of events on the 11th.. i have been re-awakened to the transient nature of human life and how it can go in the blink of an eye.

as the bible says life is vanity and a striving for the wind.. with all of the talk about world war 3 and how dangerous this world has become, i have been on a bit of an emotional roller coaster this past week.. the fear of dying is a normal and basic emotion.

peacepipe

I need to put my two cents in about this even though I'm reading it a couple days after the last post.
When I think of the death of those I care about I usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

Those who I've been close to that have died that I'm questionable about them actually going to heaven I feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

When I REALLY think about my own death I have a panic attack. I don't think I'm anything special that deserves to live past this life. I don't think I'd have any great contributions to make in any everlasting life. However, the feeling I get in my very being when I come to the realization that theres nothing else to think about once your dead because your dead forever and ever and ever and ever and ever to all eternity is nothing short of a panic attack. It's just the thought of there being nothing else, not a thought, nothing for ETERNITY scares the living crap out of me. ETERNITY is a long time. What would I do for eternity? Well nothing, I'll be dead. Well, maybe there'll be something else down the road. . . .No, there's not I'll be dead. Well, what will I do all that time?. . Nothing, I'll be dead.

Up to a certain time in my life I felt when you died there was still something else. When your young you don't quite fathom eternal nothingness because of music, shows, books and an ongoing imagination. I used to think about suicide and being in my casket and listening to my music and keeping tabs on those I love- not so bad. But at some point, if you really think hard about it, that realization that there'll be no music hits you hard. (well for some of us I suppose- not everyone)

I know that some hospice workers who work with terminally ill patients use visualization methods to help the patient cope with their death. It puts them in a safe place of comfort, love and peace. I often thought that is the sole purpose of religion. To get your mind to skip over this horrid realization so you can live your life to the fullest without having to be troubled with that black cloud. Because I asked the question in another post what the world would be like if all people were atheists and there were no religions. What would be the moral thread to keep goodness in society? Why would some people care if all they did was get high, drunk, sleep with whoever the want, kill others etc. If you could get away with it then so what? You live, you die. Get what you can because it's all you'll ever have.

I'm tired, this is a stupid reply but maybe someone will reply back that just might give me . . .something. . .I don't know what. Sometimes when your mind tells you something you have to weed through all the thoughts that come in to find just one bud that may blossom into something useful.

PeacePipe

Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty

19

Jesus Myth?

by ISP in

in all the years i was a christian minister, i never preached a sermon about the evidence for a historic jesus.

there was no need for such a sermon.

i stood before many congregations and associated with many ministers, evangelists and pastors, and not one of us ever spoke about the possibility that jesus was a fable, or that his story is more myth than history.

peacepipe

I just wanted to thank-you for sharing your research here. Without all the research and knowledge you have I've concluded in my own mind that Jesus was a real historical person that may of been elaborated through time to show divinity through the Christian Church. I am going to try to do some research on my own with the help of what you have discussed to see what kind of conclusion I come up with. Thanks again on what I'm sure took you alot of time and research.

PeacePipe

Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty

14

bump in the night

by finnrot in

jw
friends

as i read this board i notice that there are a lot of people that like myself don't believe in god anymore, and when i run accross a post where someone is professing their belief in god, that i have nothing but utter distain for them, almost like they don't belong here.

for a newbie that's kind of a ridiculous position i guess.

as i was growing it was constantly shoved down my throat that every other belief system was contlolled by the devil and run by his little demons, so after 1975 came and went and i realized that the one true religion was full of crap also, that left me with only reality to grasp, and that's, you live you die and the the worms eat you.

peacepipe

What would a world full of atheists be like? If there was no religion, no hope of an afterlife, no hope of anything bigger than ourselves then what would the world be like?

Just a question. I'm paticularly interested in the atheists' point of view. And I don't mean just. . ."there would be no war, but there would be peace, love, harmony". . .I mean what do you think a world of billions of people with trillions of opinions would be like morally without religion.

PeacePipe

Lift me up, I've had enough. . .Tom Petty