KalebOutWest

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Posts by KalebOutWest

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  18

  Unlocking Hidden Meanings: A Fresh Look at the Creation of Eve

  by TimWexler in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hello!i am an independent scholar and researcher with a deep curiosity for ancient cultures and texts.

  i do not adhere to any religious tradition, but my passion for understanding the mysteries of our past has led me to explore biblical stories in depth.

  my particular interest lies in the original hebrew text of the bible, which i find fascinating both as literature and as a source of historical riddles.i recently completed a study that might change the way you perceive some well-known biblical stories.

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  KalebOutWest

  Though I spent about 10 years in the JW community, I was raised a Jew and went to Hebrew school for 10 years. I hate to burst your bubble, but the idea of narrative of the of Adam and Eve offering up something scientific is, well, not very sound.

  Adam and Eve are likely mythological, though the idea of Eve coming from Adam's "rib" or tzela is actually far more complex in the Torah than what you mapped out.

  The stories in the Torah are meant to teach the Jews how to apply the Torah into their daily lives. In a nutshell, how we have the Torah today was designed to equip the Jews to return to the Promised Land after the Exile from Babylon. It was composed by the sages among the Levitical priesthood in Babylon who remained there and eventually set up a school (and later composed the Babylonian Talmud a generation or two later).

  The idea of tzela does not begin with Adam's rib but at Genesis 1:27, when God creates man in God's "image."

  That word there is b'tzelem, a form of the exact same Hebrew word. It refers to the type of image a king might make of himself on a coin that he imprints of himself on his own currency.

  This would imply that Eve was not fashioned out of Adam's "rib" or side as an afterthought, so to speak, but was created at the same time as Adam (even though there are variations to the creation narrative offered for teaching purposes in the Torah). Eve or Woman is in the "image" of Man and vice versa--they are two halves of one another, according to the Law of Moses.

  This is what the Law is teaching.

  It is much more difficult to see this when you do not read or speak Hebrew on a normal basis.

  As for that particular Hebrew word, it is of course the pinnacle of the basis for the world "image" and "idol" and "idolatry"--a far more central theme being played upon in Torah than merely a rib. You are just scratching at a foreshadowing at the beginning of the Torah.

  The Hebrew creation accounts were not exclusive to the Jews. They were drawn from the rich culture of the Middle East (mythology, folklore, legends) and interwoven into the theology that you find in the Torah. None of it, however, is meant to teach history or touch upon modern science.
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  10

  What Is The Purpose Of YORWW Having A Creed & The Forty (40) Basic, Fundamental Truth Requirement?

  by Littleleslie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what is the purpose of yorww having a creed & the forty (40) basic, fundamental truth requirement?.

  many people have wondered about the above question and our stand on the forty (40) basic, fundamental truths, and why we make it a requirement for individual jehovah's witnesses to believe these ideas before...before they can join our five (5) discussion boards.well, its called the yorww congregation, isn't it?its a congregation of like believers and persons of like faith.

  (matthew 18:20) so they are supposed to agree on their beliefs, exactly as first century christians agreed upon their beliefs.

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  KalebOutWest

  I love how this YORWW site explains that 16 Jehovah's Witnesses left the Watchtower because it was a cult...

  They reject "natural" Israel for it's sins against Jesus...

  But now they know the "real" truth, namely that the people of Jamaica have become the New Jerusalem and God will soon be converting them to speak Hebrew as a supernatural sign to all humanity.

  Yep, Jamaica.

  Definitely not another "snare and a racket." Put your money down quick before they run out of books.

  Let Simon know about this one!
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  6

  Apostles

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hear the word "apostles" and immediately the mind thinks of the contradictory lists of 12 men in the gospels.

  however, the word (apóstolos) had a much broader usage in the greek speaking world, pagan, jewish and christian.

  for simplicity i'd copy a few definitions.. the word apóstolos occurs only in the lxx in 1 kings 14:6, where it is used in a non-technical sense to represent the heb.

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  KalebOutWest

  The first use of the Greek word "apostle" was in the writings of the ancient Greek orator Demosthenes who lived from 384-322 BCE.

  He used it as a naval term to describe an admiral or a fleet or ships sent on a specific mission. Eventually the term APOSTOLOS came to mean a person "sent off" as an envoy for another, like a ship.

  It's well-known in the average world that this is what the word means. To illustrate, the Hebrew word, SHALOM which means "peace" also means "welcome." If you notice, in Pete's first post, he quotes that source which comments that the Greek work APOSTOLOS

  ...is used in a non-technical sense to represent the Heb. שָׁל֥וּחַ

  That Hebrew word is a form of the Hebrew word SHALOM:

  שׁלום

  The previous word looks similar because it is merely the noun in reference to a person, meaning "he who is sent forth to be welcomed." This is why it is in reference to such saintly, peaceful persons.

  A footnote to this is that Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed, according to Jewish tradition, because they would not "welcome" those "sent forth." While Christian theology attributed this strictly to homosexuality, Jewish tradition has generally never altered its view that its destruction was due to this particular failure. (Ez 16:49-50) Why such destruction for mere lack of hospitality?

  In the Biblical narrative leading up to Sodom's destruction, Abraham had just received divine visitors, one representing God, two others being angelic visitors that went on to Sodom. (Genesis 18) Those two others had been "sent forth," and except for Lot, the rest of the city not merely denied welcoming them but actually tried attacking them in the worst way. (Ge 19:1-9) Jesus would later use this very situation as a condemnation for those who would not accept those that he himself would 'send forth.'

  If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.--Matthew 10:14-15, NRSV.

  The term "apostle" is merely a personification of an envoy representing a divine presence. When not accepted, it generally spells doom...or at least, that is how the Biblical narrative plays out.
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  299

  Who told the first lie?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

  god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

  in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

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  KalebOutWest

  MMM:

  You talk in circles like a JW debating on a hot summer afternoon but claim you've moved past it all.

  Let me say one last thing from a smart non-theist. Far more smarter than me:

  "Listen to what people claim about themselves, but more importantly watch how they act. That's what they really believe in."

  You can call yourself Shirley for all I care. You have not moved far past your Kingdom Hall.
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  299

  Who told the first lie?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

  god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

  in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

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  KalebOutWest

  What do you want?

  Shj.org

  Americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/
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  299

  Who told the first lie?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

  god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

  in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

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  KalebOutWest

  I have no idea how to interpret silence from neurotypicals.

  I don't understand idiotic comments
• 
  299

  Who told the first lie?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

  god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

  in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

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  KalebOutWest

  With paid yearly dues, a member of two secular Humanistic groups, one on the East Coast of the US another on the West?

  So what are you getting at?
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  299

  Who told the first lie?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

  god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

  in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

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  KalebOutWest

  MMM,

  You do know I'm a registered Secular Humanist, right?
• 
  299

  Who told the first lie?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

  god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

  in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

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  KalebOutWest

  MMM,

  You also flip-flop like the Governing Body:

  "We never said anything about 1975...It was unfaithful people in our midst who came up with that."

  Everything you're doing is just another JW trick from their old worn out hat.

  Whatever.
• 
  299

  Who told the first lie?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

  god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

  in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

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  KalebOutWest

  MMM sounds like a Watchtower magazine, and everyone else demanding me to pick a side.

  It comes from ingrained cult thinking:

  Now is not the time to sit on the fence or be lukewarm. Jesus stated
  very clearly: “He that is not on my side is against me, and he that does not gather with me scatters.” He also said: “Whoever becomes ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of man will be ashamed of this one when he arrives in his glory and that of the Father and of the holy angels.”​—Mt 12:30; Lu 9:26.

  --Watchtower April 1, 1991, pp 8-13

  I can sit on a fence and keep an opinion to myself or don't have to decide.

  I am my own person.