Posts by KalebOutWest

18

Unlocking Hidden Meanings: A Fresh Look at the Creation of Eve

by TimWexler in

hello!i am an independent scholar and researcher with a deep curiosity for ancient cultures and texts.

i do not adhere to any religious tradition, but my passion for understanding the mysteries of our past has led me to explore biblical stories in depth.

my particular interest lies in the original hebrew text of the bible, which i find fascinating both as literature and as a source of historical riddles.i recently completed a study that might change the way you perceive some well-known biblical stories.

KalebOutWest

If those are the letters, are they all found within the name (Joshua) you chose to use based on the Hebrew (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ) name?

I'm not sure what you are asking or, again, why. But that is not possible. If you would tell me "why" you are asking it would help.

The way we change names from other languages for pronounciation into English, especially when they do not employ the Roman alphabet, do not work anything like you are suggesting. Let me give you a funny example that will help you wrap your head around what is going on with the name "Joshua," as this is not what it really sounds like in Hebrew.

You are likely familiar with the Japanese movie monster Godzilla, I am sure. Well his name is actually not "Godzilla." It is ゴジラ which was developed back in the 1950s when they were constructing the original costume which was quite burly in the chest. If you have ever seen the original film, the original monster suit worn by the stunt man looked like a gorilla/lizard beast. Since it swam, they jokingly dubbed it "gorilla-whale."

In Japanese, the language allows you to combine the two words, unlike English, which is what happened. So that became the name of the monster. In the original tongue the name sounds something like "Gojira," with something of a "shhh" sound along with the "j" that you just pick up when you learn to speak Japanese.

When the film was picked up for American audiences, the original movie had an anti-nuclear war message that the distributor did not think would go over well immediately after WWII. So he recut the film and added some footage with American actor Raymond Burr as a reporter, turning the film into a monster movie. The American producer changed the name of the monster to "Godzilla" to make the creature sound more horrific. The rest is history.

This process is called "Latinization." It involves taking a name from an original language that does not employ Roman letters, sounds and sometimes even meanings and making them easier to pronounce, understand and use for Westerners.

The same goes for "Joshua." The name in Hebrew actually sounds something like "YehoeShooWah" except the first "e" after the "Y" is barely noticeable and the sounds after the "S" combine with and merge into the sound of the "W." It's something that comes with learning Hebrew. You can't actually reproduce it in English.

So you just scrap it altogether and develop something new and come up with Joshua. The Greeks did the same thing. The couldn't pronounce the Hebrew name either. They came up with Yesous as their way of doing it.

Thus the answer to your question is of course "no." Transmission and translation of names into other languages, especially ones that don't use Roman letters, don't work anything like that.

18

Unlocking Hidden Meanings: A Fresh Look at the Creation of Eve

by TimWexler in

hello!i am an independent scholar and researcher with a deep curiosity for ancient cultures and texts.

i do not adhere to any religious tradition, but my passion for understanding the mysteries of our past has led me to explore biblical stories in depth.

my particular interest lies in the original hebrew text of the bible, which i find fascinating both as literature and as a source of historical riddles.i recently completed a study that might change the way you perceive some well-known biblical stories.

KalebOutWest

This is what my Hebrew name was going to be at one time. Instead I was named "dog," which is what my Hebrew name "Kalev" or Caleb means.

This is "Joshua."

The letters are Yohd Hey Vav Shin Ayin.

The other word is the Shem Ha-Mephorash, Yohd Hey Vav Hey.

Why do you want to know?

17

Creation, Not Evolution Best Explains Genetics

by Sea Breeze in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umnhg0a9dlu.

evolutionists can change their model, and invent stories whenever they want to accomodate data.

biblical literalists are stuck with just one model, one account, and are unable to change it.

KalebOutWest

Sea Breeze--You just made up your entire post about the Jews. Like my grandmother used to say, the world is filled with unmarried marriage counselors.

"Orthodox" Jews only came into existence in the modern era once the Reform Jewish movement began in 1810. They did not exist before.

They are considered "Orthodox" only in the West, in the United States of America, for the most part due to the fact that Jews in the USA who did not join the Reform movement were labeled "Orthodox" by members in the Reform group who used to make fun of them.

This group further divided among themselves according to how they viewed Jewish tradition and application of Jewish law, the first significant division forming the Conservative Movement (meaning the group in the middle or "in between," the "so-called" Orthodox and the Reform). The movement is called "Masorti" in the UK.

A minor but significant branch would later influence all of modern Judaism via its founder, a small denomination known as Reconstructionism. After that a significant number of practicing atheist and agnostic Jews in various synagogues would begin a movement known as Secular Humanistic Judaism in 1966.

"Orthodox" Jews are actually called Haredi or simply "religious" Jews and are themselves divided into several movements, such as the Chasidim and the Modernist.

All of these are actually part of just one group of the Jewish culture, namely the Ashkenazi, the lighter skinned Jews of Eastern Europe origin. I am Sephardic, the darker skinned type of Middle Eastern origin, and we have no such denominational divisions.

Ashkenazi make up about 80% of the Jewish population in the US, but not in Israel where the numbers are equal. In the world, the Ashkenazi are outnumbered as along with other groups like the Mizrahi Jews, Ashkenazi are actually not as significant as they seem in the West.

In Israel, Jews are called merely "religious" or "secular," not "Orthodox" or otherwise.

17

Creation, Not Evolution Best Explains Genetics

by Sea Breeze in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umnhg0a9dlu.

evolutionists can change their model, and invent stories whenever they want to accomodate data.

biblical literalists are stuck with just one model, one account, and are unable to change it.

KalebOutWest

Creationists are nothing less than Jewish wannabes.

Incapable and afraid to walk away from their precious "Jesus," out of fear that they would lose their immortal soul, they will do everything, i.e., call themselves "New Jerusalem," "spiritual Jews," etc., except for literally learn the Torah (not to mention learn Hebrew and convert to Judaism).

The reason? Even in Orthodox Judaism, the creation narratives are viewed as allegorical. Across the spectrum, throughout the centuries, the same culture of these people from whom the creation story spring breed the majority of the award-winning scientists who teach evolution theory.

These people don't want to be Jews. They don't really like Jews. They want to replace Jews because they think we're special or "chosen." (We are not really special or "chosen" in any sense of the way they imagine.)

I was stunned as I sat in the Kingdom Hall as a teenager and glad when old enough to return to the halls of higher learning where I didn't have to listen to people who twisted the folklore of my people.

I spent over 10 years in Hebrew school and then had to listen to idiots for about another 10 from the KH platforms tell me they knew the Bible better even though they couldn't read a lick of it in the original tongue. 1914 generation! 1975! Smurfs are evil! Don't grow a beard, etc.!

After seeing what I saw in the Watchtower, I believe some people really want to feel like they are superior and special because they are afraid of reality.

They will also rather literally choke you to death and spit on your dead corpse than admit they are wrong. They don't want facts or truth. They want reality to fit their narrative.

You can't argue with people who want a fairy tale and imagine they are living it even now. They don't want science. They don't even want to know anything accurate about Scripture.

They only want to know that the universe is about them, and that everything is exactly as they think it is.

And they will tell you to f#@k off if you disagree with anything they say, no matter how many facts, miracles or even direct quotes from the mouth of God you bring them.

18

Unlocking Hidden Meanings: A Fresh Look at the Creation of Eve

by TimWexler in

hello!i am an independent scholar and researcher with a deep curiosity for ancient cultures and texts.

i do not adhere to any religious tradition, but my passion for understanding the mysteries of our past has led me to explore biblical stories in depth.

my particular interest lies in the original hebrew text of the bible, which i find fascinating both as literature and as a source of historical riddles.i recently completed a study that might change the way you perceive some well-known biblical stories.

KalebOutWest

Though I spent about 10 years in the JW community, I was raised a Jew and went to Hebrew school for 10 years. I hate to burst your bubble, but the idea of narrative of the of Adam and Eve offering up something scientific is, well, not very sound.

Adam and Eve are likely mythological, though the idea of Eve coming from Adam's "rib" or tzela is actually far more complex in the Torah than what you mapped out.

The stories in the Torah are meant to teach the Jews how to apply the Torah into their daily lives. In a nutshell, how we have the Torah today was designed to equip the Jews to return to the Promised Land after the Exile from Babylon. It was composed by the sages among the Levitical priesthood in Babylon who remained there and eventually set up a school (and later composed the Babylonian Talmud a generation or two later).

The idea of tzela does not begin with Adam's rib but at Genesis 1:27, when God creates man in God's "image."

That word there is b'tzelem, a form of the exact same Hebrew word. It refers to the type of image a king might make of himself on a coin that he imprints of himself on his own currency.

This would imply that Eve was not fashioned out of Adam's "rib" or side as an afterthought, so to speak, but was created at the same time as Adam (even though there are variations to the creation narrative offered for teaching purposes in the Torah). Eve or Woman is in the "image" of Man and vice versa--they are two halves of one another, according to the Law of Moses.

This is what the Law is teaching.

It is much more difficult to see this when you do not read or speak Hebrew on a normal basis.

As for that particular Hebrew word, it is of course the pinnacle of the basis for the world "image" and "idol" and "idolatry"--a far more central theme being played upon in Torah than merely a rib. You are just scratching at a foreshadowing at the beginning of the Torah.

The Hebrew creation accounts were not exclusive to the Jews. They were drawn from the rich culture of the Middle East (mythology, folklore, legends) and interwoven into the theology that you find in the Torah. None of it, however, is meant to teach history or touch upon modern science.

10

What Is The Purpose Of YORWW Having A Creed & The Forty (40) Basic, Fundamental Truth Requirement?

by Littleleslie in

what is the purpose of yorww having a creed & the forty (40) basic, fundamental truth requirement?.

many people have wondered about the above question and our stand on the forty (40) basic, fundamental truths, and why we make it a requirement for individual jehovah's witnesses to believe these ideas before...before they can join our five (5) discussion boards.well, its called the yorww congregation, isn't it?its a congregation of like believers and persons of like faith.

(matthew 18:20) so they are supposed to agree on their beliefs, exactly as first century christians agreed upon their beliefs.

KalebOutWest

I love how this YORWW site explains that 16 Jehovah's Witnesses left the Watchtower because it was a cult...

They reject "natural" Israel for it's sins against Jesus...

But now they know the "real" truth, namely that the people of Jamaica have become the New Jerusalem and God will soon be converting them to speak Hebrew as a supernatural sign to all humanity.

Yep, Jamaica.

Definitely not another "snare and a racket." Put your money down quick before they run out of books.

Let Simon know about this one!

6

Apostles

by peacefulpete in

hear the word "apostles" and immediately the mind thinks of the contradictory lists of 12 men in the gospels.

however, the word (apóstolos) had a much broader usage in the greek speaking world, pagan, jewish and christian.

for simplicity i'd copy a few definitions.. the word apóstolos occurs only in the lxx in 1 kings 14:6, where it is used in a non-technical sense to represent the heb.

KalebOutWest

The first use of the Greek word "apostle" was in the writings of the ancient Greek orator Demosthenes who lived from 384-322 BCE.

He used it as a naval term to describe an admiral or a fleet or ships sent on a specific mission. Eventually the term APOSTOLOS came to mean a person "sent off" as an envoy for another, like a ship.

It's well-known in the average world that this is what the word means. To illustrate, the Hebrew word, SHALOM which means "peace" also means "welcome." If you notice, in Pete's first post, he quotes that source which comments that the Greek work APOSTOLOS

...is used in a non-technical sense to represent the Heb. שָׁל֥וּחַ

That Hebrew word is a form of the Hebrew word SHALOM:

שׁלום

The previous word looks similar because it is merely the noun in reference to a person, meaning "he who is sent forth to be welcomed." This is why it is in reference to such saintly, peaceful persons.

A footnote to this is that Sodom and Gommorah were destroyed, according to Jewish tradition, because they would not "welcome" those "sent forth." While Christian theology attributed this strictly to homosexuality, Jewish tradition has generally never altered its view that its destruction was due to this particular failure. (Ez 16:49-50) Why such destruction for mere lack of hospitality?

In the Biblical narrative leading up to Sodom's destruction, Abraham had just received divine visitors, one representing God, two others being angelic visitors that went on to Sodom. (Genesis 18) Those two others had been "sent forth," and except for Lot, the rest of the city not merely denied welcoming them but actually tried attacking them in the worst way. (Ge 19:1-9) Jesus would later use this very situation as a condemnation for those who would not accept those that he himself would 'send forth.'

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.--Matthew 10:14-15, NRSV.

The term "apostle" is merely a personification of an envoy representing a divine presence. When not accepted, it generally spells doom...or at least, that is how the Biblical narrative plays out.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

KalebOutWest

MMM:

You talk in circles like a JW debating on a hot summer afternoon but claim you've moved past it all.

Let me say one last thing from a smart non-theist. Far more smarter than me:

"Listen to what people claim about themselves, but more importantly watch how they act. That's what they really believe in."

You can call yourself Shirley for all I care. You have not moved far past your Kingdom Hall.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

KalebOutWest

What do you want?

Shj.org

Americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

KalebOutWest

I have no idea how to interpret silence from neurotypicals.

I don't understand idiotic comments