Perry

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Posts by Perry

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  18

  These last few weeks.

  by Princess in

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  2. friends

  i haven't posted more than a reply or two to various topics these last few weeks.

  i haven't seen any evidence of my mom (mulan) in as long.. i have started to post the whole story but it is too long and probably unbelievable.

  anyway, here is the short version.. 89 year old grandma fell and broke a vertabrae.

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  Perry

  Princess,

  I enjoyed your post and hope that I have not gained too much consolation at the expense of you and your other family members. Yes, I have an Aunt that makes Tony Spranos' mother look like Mother Teresa. And yes, my mother's family are all Sicilian.... the whole nine yards.

  The key point is that you did two very healty things. You made your Grandma responsible for her power of attorney decision and you set boundaries betwen yourself and her. Now, that kind of lucidness in families is rare, especially since you seem to really care about her in spite of her neurotic-ness.

  If she would have been dealt with such functionality by all family members in the past, she would have never been enabled to carry on the manipulation you allude to. Perhaps she would have been more able to live with current family as opposed to assisted living.

  The reality is that family members have a responsibility to themselves every bit as much to her. Every situation is different.

  It is nice though to see people standing for principle and responsibility in the face of dysfunction.
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  6

  Legality of WT in a Free Democracy?

  by Celtic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  armed with all the facts, an overall grasp of the facts, a helicopter minds view of the entire situation, in an ideal free democracy, would the wt corporation be legal or illegal?

  based on their own theocratic warfare doctrine?

  what does this advocate?.

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  Perry

  In order for the WT to be illegal, the will of the majority would have to be overturned. Courts have sometime succeed in reversing the will of the majority if something is found unconstitutional, which itself repersents a higher form of democracy embraced by the will of the majority.

  So, the very instrument used to allow the WT to exist, the constitution, would need to be invoked as a standard to determine if the WT violates it enough to warrrant the negation of freedom of religion clauses.

  The courts have been very reluctant to go down this slippery slope because once they do, the line is forever blurred.

  I believe the approach from the angle: the WT doesn't have a right to exist is fraught with too many pitfalls. It is much better to approach it from that which questions its culpability in violating civil rights.
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  30

  Remaining in Association with Jehovah's W...

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  remaining in association with jehovahs witnesses .

  an active baptized member of jehovahs witnesses finds significant errors taught in the central publication of the religion, the watchtower journal.

  the error is taught with frequency in private and public settings arranged by the religion.

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  Perry

  JT, Plato said that the unexamined life is not worth living.

  From a sociological perspective, people generally don't know, what they do not know. And, if Plato is correct then the "death" toll is far greater than those affected by blood and shunning. What the Society has actually stolen is people's ability to reach for a better quality of life.

  Like you said, after leaving most simply run the program: since I don't go to meetings I must fall into immorality, drugs, etc.; because I 've been taught that is what worldly people do.

  Most on this board do not truly realize that practically ANY unethical behavior that they now engage in was pre-programmed by the society. I could draw on many sociological models to illustrate this point, but the reality is, many are not free at all to realize their potential.

  I am in full agreement with you that the real toll cannot be measured in loss of life, but rather in loss of quality of life.
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  30

  Remaining in Association with Jehovah's W...

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  remaining in association with jehovahs witnesses .

  an active baptized member of jehovahs witnesses finds significant errors taught in the central publication of the religion, the watchtower journal.

  the error is taught with frequency in private and public settings arranged by the religion.

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  Perry

  JT wrote:

  "WHAT IS THE FLAW IN THE ORG?"

  the flaw in the org is a very simple one that will not change and if it does then the org will cease to be:

  the flaw in the org is their claim that WE SPEAK FOR GOD

  
  Your above statement hit me right between the eyes. The entire purpose of the WBTS is to convince people that it is God's Mouthpiece.

  How did I miss that stark simplicity in the past? I always viewed it as a religious institution used to get to know God and Christ. That is not what it is about at all.

  REFORM WT INTO WHAT? Since it has NEVER BEEN GOD'S MOUTHPC OR CHANNEL are you saying that your effors will result in the org becoming the channel of God here on the earth AS IT CLAIMS IT ALREADY IS

  You are so right JT. Even if the WBTS changes policies so that people won't have to die, it still will be all about equating itself with God. Under that pretense, it will always administer domination in one form or another.
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  30

  Remaining in Association with Jehovah's W...

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  remaining in association with jehovahs witnesses .

  an active baptized member of jehovahs witnesses finds significant errors taught in the central publication of the religion, the watchtower journal.

  the error is taught with frequency in private and public settings arranged by the religion.

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  Perry

  Marvin,

  I could almost feel the struggle in your post and greatly enjoyed you sharing your thoughts on your crisis of conscience.

  The error is taught with frequency in private and public settings arranged by the religion. The significance reaches to the point that, in some circumstances, premature death could result from abiding by the error.

  Ask yourself this question: Would I act any differently if I was talking about a college as opposed to a religion? Both are institutions of knowledge and ideologies. The only difference IMO are the stakes. Just because the stakes have been raised should you act differently?

  If a university observed policies that resulted in the "premature deaths" of students what would you do? Certainly virtue may even demand that you stay and assist your classmates to change the policies and help save lives. But what if the administration was simply a totalitarian regime that met all disagreement with either forced recanting (lying) or expulsion? What chance of reform would there actually be? What does history teach us about negotiating with terroristic authority?

  Of course, if your staying was part of a well thought plan to help other classmates escape the danger, that is an entirely different story. However, if self deception is employed, imagining a result with no chance of success, then how can that possibly resemble anything having to do with honor?

  Certainly many Germans deceived themselves during WW II and the cry from some officers, "I was only following orders" that resulted in the "premature deaths" of innocent people didn't hold up in a court of law. During that dark time in history, in retrospect many people suffered intense guilt and a loss of dignity for not doing something. Though admittedly the options were few.

  Just because religions are constitutionally exempt from the same intensity of prosecution that may be applied to individuals, institutions, and governments, does that releive a moral obligation to love your neighbor as yourself, especially if claiming a Christian alligiance? How can a person sleep well and look at themself in the mirror knowing that at that very moment your neighbor and spiritual kin may be needlessly dying due to ignorance and domination while you cling to credulity?

  I make no personal judgements here. You are the one with the knowledge of your inner motivations. My thoughts above are simply my opinions.

  Good luck with your current conscience crisis. And, make no mistake about it, it is also a crisis of honor, virtue and dignity as well. It may, in all liklihood be one of the greatest tests of your character you will ever face.
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  22

  Is it OK to kill somebody?

  by julien in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  speaking entirely from a biblical standpoint:.

  let's say you are a devout jw.

  your wife and children are being threatened by an intruder with a gun.

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  Perry

  Does anyone know of any "hit" attempts/threats on the governing body because of their policies on blood, shunning etc??

  It seems that if already semi-crack pot people are psychologically demolished with even more isolation through shunning than what they had in the Borg, that some just might snap and starting thinking that an automatic weapon in a Tower might be an OK way to go out with a bang.

  There has been succesful assinations and attempts on the Pope, the Prez, abortion doctors etc.; and they are not nearly as abusive as the Borg. I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I think that it is entirely likely that some crack pot will get tired of "waiting on Jehovah" and then decides to help HIM out a little bit.

  I wonder if the GB ever ponders this possibility?
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  33

  I've Cried for Days

  by Smoldering Wick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been separated from the jws now for 4 years.

  the first year, i went into a deep and severe clinical depression.

  i think that's what happens when you are 3rd generation jw, born and raised.

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  Perry

  Now, here I am...on JWD. I have allowed myself to read more anti-JW stuff in the past week than I have in four years. I tried to remain humorous...an occasional sex post for reassurance.

  Smoldering Wick,

  You say you "allowed yourself" to read anti-JW stuff as if it was a weakness. That tells me you are still in the grips of the Tower.

  I certainly will not condemn you because I think that people whose families go back generations have very unique challenges in shedding the guilt because it is so intertwined with family folklore. I'm a 4th GenEx.

  I stayed chained for years after leaving, in part because of how my mother suffered at school during WW II, being spit on, called NAZI, being hailed to the Principals' office every morning to be kicked out and rejected infront of all her peers.

  I deeply love my mother, was proud of her stand, and didn't want to believe that it was for naught. Eventually I got around to studying about ascetisism and legalism. I realized my family liked to be victims so they could actually feel superior by means of the things they denied themselves and suffered. I had confused strength of charatcter with ascetism. They are very different. Simply reading the NT with a good study bible (one with lots of commentary) cleared it up for me.

  While my heart still goes out to that 9 yr. old little girl that rolled with the punches during war time hysteria, I myself was faced with a challenge and stand that I had to make. In some ways saying goodbye to generations of family on grounds of conscience is far more a test of character than anything my mother ever did.

  I encourage you to be content with where you are in your walk with God. I feel your pain and I know this is something that cannot be rushed. But know this, when you are ready, and you will know when you are, you will want to more from a victim to the victor of your own life, with or without your family. Then, you may very well find yourself seeking community based on your conscience and not on the tenets of family folklore and religious guilt.

  I just got back from a Men's Bible study tonight. Conraderie with over 40 men from different perspectives and walks of life is very encouaging to me. You don't have to be alone.

  Please feel free to e-mail me any time if you need an ear, or feel that our experiences have been similar in some way that might be helpful.

  Perry
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  9

  New light/Tacking satire!!!

  by VeniceIT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after reading messengers post on new light i couldn't help but think up this scenario.

  you all know how obsessed i am with 'tacking' so give me a break k hahaha.

  "ok everyone listen up this is your captor uhhmm i mean captain speaking.

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  Perry

  Perry hands Venice a fresh bowl of pasta "sea" upon reaching shore.
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  19

  Reflections over the year! Thanks!

  by VeniceIT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everyone, i just looked at my profile the other day and realized that i'd started posting over a year ago.

  in some ways it all seems so short this past year, like a blur in my life.

  yet i feel that i've gotten to know so many of you so well, i can't believe it's only been a year.. one thing that's really strange for me is the fact the no one i talk to or know has known me for more then 2 years!!!

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  Perry

  Thank you for being here for others too Venice.
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  21

  Disfellowshipping: A protection in the end?

  by Esmeralda in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, the year is nearly out, and as the new one approaches i'm thinking back on 2 years of being in the online exjw community and, in june 2002, my four year anniversary of my df'ing.. when first i came to h2o seeking comfort and support in january 2000, i had been df'd for a year and a half and online nearly 4 years but never had the guts to type "jehovah's witnesses" into a search engine.

  that search led me to freeminds (thanks, randy *hug*) and then, to h2o.. what a journey its been.

  i've gone from devastation at losing my family, to anger, through the anger to numbness, back through sadness, and now after much soul searching and a chance change of circumstances last summer, come to look at my disfellowshipping in an entirely new light.. those who know my history know that i was born into the borg, baptized at 12, married at 19, and was a very loyal, unquestioning dub until the age of 24 when the elders told me that my miscarried babies had no status with god.

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  Perry

  Being that we were all in a way raped by this cult, perhaps your thread could have been titled Disfellowshipping: A protection for your End?