Posts by outoftheorg

2

define an evil org.

by outoftheorg in

jw
friends

i have been struggling over a decision about evil for some time.

i went from thinking the wbts uses too much old testament laws to the old gb guys were stuck in old beliefs that will change to wondering if there is an evil intent here.. this revolved not so much regarding dogma such as trinity-hell-jesus is michael etc.

then does this indicate that satan is in some way involved in these actions.. i have the same dilema when i consider the disallowing of transplants and the deaths this caused and then later allowing them with out even an apology.

outoftheorg

I have been struggling over a decision about evil for some time. I went from thinking the wbts uses too much old testament laws to the old GB guys were stuck in old beliefs that will change to wondering if there is an evil intent here.

This revolved not so much regarding dogma such as trinity-hell-jesus is michael etc. The things I am thinking about were rules enforced by threat of df'd or da'd. Pedophilia is a sin in jw eyes as it should be. If elders do not do all that is reasonable to act to protect their cong. Such as report to police in ALL cases-leave victims free to tell others if they wish-remove those who confess or are tried and convicted. Incourage victims & parents to seek any help they may wish. Put their entire focus on helping the abused. Are the elders sinning in gods eyes. Since they do or do not do these things at the behest of the wbts or GB if the elders are sinning then the wbts is a co conspiritor and is even more guilty since they instituted these requirements on the elders. At what point do continued sinful acts rightfully reveal evil. Are the elders and more importantly the wbts since they imposed these actions on the elders an evil organization. Then does this indicate that Satan is in some way involved in these actions.

I have the same dilema when I consider the disallowing of transplants and the deaths this caused and then later allowing them with out even an apology. Who is to take responsibility for these needless deaths? Did the wbts and the GB sin when they forbid this? Is there some evil involved here?

Again the dilema when I consider the blood transfusion issue and how at first no blood what so ever. How many children and adults died at this point? Then a relaxed approach again without any apology letting gradually more and more blood factors be acceptable in the eyes of the wbts. Are these needless deaths the result of sinning on the part of the wbts and is there an evil issue here? We are told by the wbts that jehovah observes all things and that wrong doing will be punished and that outright evil is even worse.

My question is " I am beginning to wonder if there is an outright connection between the wbts and satan" Are they doing the will of satan? What do you think on this point?

Please don't give me that crap about light getting brighter. If transplants are not a sin now they never were a sin. Its obvious to me that this rubbish is about the errors of men and do not try to involve God in your mistakes. Honest mistakes are one thing. But imposing rules that cost inocent lives and then voiding the rule is to cause needless deaths without any justification . Is this negligent homicide? Homicide in the first degree? It certainly is homicide of some sort.

Can a group of old men "the governing body of jehovah's witnesses" be so deluded that they are completely ignorant of this? Do they not have any grief over what they have caused? I can't help but believe that they are well aware of these needless deaths and they do not care a wit.

We could continue this into the destruction of marriage-family structures and relationships-suicides due to depression caused by disfellowshipping and on and on. Are they imune to the normal human grief and guilt over all these things. Or is satan involved? Tell me what do you think?

39

For the new ones to this site....

by Mimilly in

jw
friends

i've noticed many new ones to our lil community here and have been unable to welcome you all personally.

there is a great variety of people here and loads of information and support.

feel free to vent!

outoftheorg

Hi Mimilly.

I am one of the newbies. It is a pleasure and a real mood booster to go on this site and read posts like yours. It is very helpful to me to know there are groups of many people who like myself have had to face life after the borg and they survived intact.

Thanks for your welcome!!

14

ruse

by teejay in

for some reason, and i don't know why, the bbc program has evoked feelings that the dateline program never did.

i think it must have been the cops.. i was raised with few advantages.

single (black) mother, raising six children on her own.... no father.

outoftheorg

Its me again Teejay.

You know, I thought a lot about what you have said. I suppose because you feel somewhat the same as I did and do. I read a book "A road less traveled" forgot the authors name but he is a well known psychologist or psychiatrist. If I remember correctly the first line of the first paragraph is, Life is difficult- period. He tells us that we should not expect anything different. The wbts in ways led us to expect happiness and joy if only we would follow their demands. They foster the "live happily ever after" type of thinking. They promised not only a world of happiness, but a NEW world of pure happiness and it was to come very soon. Now who wouldn't want that? So you and I and others who grew up in this mind set end up with brains/personality hard wired to that kind of thought and personality. So it is easy to understand that one would be sad, have a feeling of loss and sadness when we have to face and accept a very different actual world and admit to ourselves that our beliefs and expectations were wrong. Gary Busselman pointed out that most victims of a cult came into the cult from a normal well based healthy family and when they left the cult they had to strip away the vernier personality laid over the healthy one by the cult and restore their personality. Well those of us who grew up from childhood in this cult do not have this healthy personality to go back to and rely on. So for a while I think our personality is a meld of the cult personality and the new one we are constructing from scratch so to speak. It has been a while now since I left the cult and in my mind activly destroyed any lingering beliefs or thoughts from the cult that I no longer accepted. It is only now that I feel I am beginning to be a truly different person/personality. One of the things I am still working on is the black and white view of people and situations. The all or nothing type of thought. I am now accepting that people that are not too good in my eyes are also not too bad. That even the person that I might have totally rejected as bad when in the cult does show some very kind and loveable traits but just has some problems. Who of us do not have some problems. I think that this will be a long journey for me but not a bad one or one I can not tolerate. I think if I try I might even enjoy it and get some satisfaction from it. Didn't mean to carry on so long, got started and couldn't stop. Hang in there Teejay, it sure has been tood talking with you.

30

They do too go beyond what is written...

by Marilyn in

jw
friends

tdogg started this on another thread.

his comments were:.

i wish i had that quote when i was told i had to wear a tie and suit to meeting, when i played chess, when i bought star wars figures, when i had to do at least 5 hrs of service a month, make a comment at every meeting, not wear top-sider shoes, never see a rated r movie, wear a no-blood bracelet, highlight all the answers in my watchtower, not play organised sports, not salute the flag,....anyone want to take over?......

outoftheorg

How dare you guys blaspheme the wbts in this manner. Don't you apostates understand that the god like watchtower works in strange ways! All of these strange things are for your benefit to keep you untarnished by the world and are a gift from Jehovah!

If you can get strange enough no one will want anything to do with you so you can not be tarnished.

62

The Wisest Man Who Ever Lived

by comforter in

jw
friends

there have been many sages who walked the face of the earth.

the wisest man who ever lived, however, is jesus christ.

jesus made an impact on history that very few men have matched.

outoftheorg

This dimwit comforter is stringing us along. I propose we give him a dose of that old barbaric action of SHUNNING!! He is obviously a jdub jerking our string. To agravate an arrogant jw to the extreme is to ignore him. I believe if he recieves a good cathartic dose of shunning he will drift away like the proverbial FART IN A WINDSTORM.

14

ruse

by teejay in

for some reason, and i don't know why, the bbc program has evoked feelings that the dateline program never did.

i think it must have been the cops.. i was raised with few advantages.

single (black) mother, raising six children on her own.... no father.

outoftheorg

Yeah Teejay.

My memories go back to the 1940's and I grew up in a jw family. Panorama and some other things lately have brought up some sadness about what might have been in that religion if it had not been for the likes of Rutherford- Fred Franz- and the other arrogant ones on the gb. There are a lot of really good people in the rank and file and some of the elders were good folks also.

It is difficult when we learn we can't look to some org. to think for us and we have to do our own thinking and decisions and face the world somewhat by ourselves. But as you learn to work with others in the world in the same situation and form friends it gets easier bit by bit. It turned out in my life that after a time (a few years) that the freedom to think for myself started replacing the sadness. If I do or recieve some thing good that I would have avoided when in the org. I get a kind of breath of fresh air feeling from it. Another thing I really enjoy is not looking at every one not in the org as a potential enemy that we expected to turn on us at armageddon. I can finally look at my non jw neighbors as a source of help in a time of need and I can offer the same to them.

I must say you sure can express your self well with the written word. Hang in there Teejay take it one day at a time and enjoy your self enjoy the good things in life and don't dwell on the past too much. That has been a problem for me and I still have to work on it.

6

attn. all vikings

by outoftheorg in

jw
friends

i am hoping some of the norwegian people on this forum can help me out on this.. my father was born in moss norway in 1879. i would like to get some genealogy on my ancestors and maybe contact some cousins etc.. i have my grandfathers and my grandmothers name and not much else.

for whatever reason there was little or no comunication between my father and his relatives in norway.

although there seemed to be no rifts between them.. if you know of some internet sites in norway where i could scan birth records and such i would appreciate your help in geting the addresses.

outoftheorg

Hi crazy drinker.

Yeah Swedes and the Norwegian are neighbors. I can recall my dad singing some ditty about chasing 10,000 Swedes through the weeds or something like that. Maybe they didn't always get along too well. But strangly enough he was willing to brawl with anyone who bad mouthed his Swedish friends.

12

NO JW's Decal competition

by Cappuccino OC in

jw
friends

hi everyone this is cappucino oc,.

a while back there was a thread on decals.

i'm not sure if anyone is printing any.

outoftheorg

I love that apostates welcome door mat idea. ha ha ha ha! I am going to look into that locally.

I'll let you know if I find anything. Think my wife could knit one? Probably not. She's up to my hair

brained ideas.

35

Doctor Visit Today

by Amazing in

jw
friends

well folks: i had my first follow-up visit, and things are not as good as i was hoping.

essentially, using diet and exercise to try and reverse my clogged arteries is okay for 15 areas which are 50% or less clogged, by 2 of the points are 80% occluded ... and must be treated in a matter of months, or i face death inside a year ... so, i have some time, but not as i hoped.

the two bad occlusions art each at the intersections of main branches ... and either of them would likely kill me if they close up.. the doctor was impressed with my diet changes, lifestyle adjustments, and weight loss and level of recovery ... but the recovery is limited, in that i still have some strong angina with mild exercise, strongly suggesting my heart does not get enough blood when i exercise, and then when i eat a large meal, the stomach uses enough blood flow, that the heart gets starved and i go into serious angina ... soooo ... i am ordered to limit exercise and eat 6 to 8 tiny meals a day ... and i am even getting a handicap sign for my car ... yikes!

outoftheorg

I am a newbie here amazing so I do not know you. You seem like an intelligent and knowledgeable man, so I know you will take the right course in your medical situation.

You have an upbeat attitude and that sure will help. Wish you the very best and I and all the otheres here will be pulling for you.

Hang in there my man.

10

Jaracz is not important

by Kismet in

jw
friends

while i understand the attention given to the 20 seconds of comments by jarcz and the damning arrogance he displayed, his role on panorama was not important.. the strength, the courage of the victims that spoke up on that show.

the raw courage it must have taken to back into the room under the house, to stand in front of a camera and talk about these despicable acts perpetrated against them, that was the most important thing.. i take my hat off and deeply respect the courage it took for these survivors, (i loved the sound clip from the candlelight vigil, regarding victim vs. survivor) to stand up and roar.. congrats to all involved in standing up to the borg.

as a caution tho, to all those that remain silent do not feel you have to become an advocate and media star in order to heal.

outoftheorg

Well done Kismet. Very very good advice.