pseudoxristos

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Posts by pseudoxristos

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  67

  What will you say to God in your defense?

  by fearnotruth22 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  suppose god holds us accountable.

  what will you say to him in your defense to plead you cause?

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  pseudoxristos

  Where's the beef?
  
  
  
  
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  32

  If you had to choose between Truth or Happiness

  by dh in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if suddenly you were confronted by someone who could grant it, and offered these two choices, which would you choose (if either).. 1.

  (truth) you can have the answers to all of your questions, know and understand the absolute truth about all things, who we are, where we came from and how it all happened, and most importantly, you will be able to comprehend why.

  the price of this insight is not cheap... you must leave behind everything you know; family, friends, pets, property, all things you value, you do not get to say goodbye and you will never see any of them again.. or.. 2.

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  pseudoxristos

  The ultimate answer to any question I might have sounds appealing at first. But then, I?m not sure I want to know everything. The intimate details of how those close to me eventually die is not something that I would like to know (not to mention knowledge of my own death). The details of all those who have suffered throughout Mankind?s existence would be far too much to bear.

  Truth in small doses is great, but ultimate Truth would be too painful. Give me Happiness.

  Pseudo

  ...Man is a stranger to his own research;

  He knows not whence he comes, nor whither goes.

  Tormented atoms in a bed of mud,

  Devoured by death, a mockery of fate.

  But thinking atoms, whose far-seeing eyes,

  Guided by thought, have measured the faint stars,

  Our being mingles with the infinite;

  Ouselves we never see, or come to know... --Voltaire--
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  52

  Why does anything exist at all?

  by logansrun in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  god or no god, why is there something rather than nothing?

  why do elements have properties?

  why does consciousness exist?

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  pseudoxristos

  ...Man is a stranger to his own research;
  He knows not whence he comes, nor whither goes.
  Tormented atoms in a bed of mud,
  Devoured by death, a mockery of fate.
  But thinking atoms, whose far-seeing eyes,
  Guided by thought, have measured the faint stars,
  Our being mingles with the infinite;
  Ouselves we never see, or come to know...

  --Voltaire--
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  78

  Jesus and the two criminals dying beside him.....

  by sandy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been watching a couple of the movies retelling the life of christ and i was wondering about the words jesus said to the criminal who asked him to remember him.. the king james version reads: and jesus said unto him, "verily i say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise" luke 23:43. the new world translation reads: and he said to him "truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.

  " luke 23:43. the movie i was watching quoted or at least was closer to the king james version.

  maybe i am wrong but the same scriptures seem to imply two different things.

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  pseudoxristos

  Leolaia,

  I finally had a chance to thoroughly examine your post.

  Very Impressive!

  Your writing style is also a very enjoyable.

  You brought out many of the nuances that I should have included in my post. For instance, I was just too lazy to include a detailed explanation of the different Hebrew thoughts on the condition of the dead. I also should have mentioned that the views I presented were just one of many threads of thought in late Judaism and early Christianity.

  I found the most interesting point to be that of Persian Influence. I had just begun to explore this possibility, with post in a different forum.

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jehovahswitnessesgathering/message/9149

  The post was very similar to my post in this thread with the addition of the following material.

  ZOROASTRIANISM

  ...

  3. Possible Theological Influence:

  As a matter of fact, after Israel's contact with Persia the following elements, all known to Mazdeism, appear, and apparently for the first time: (1) a formal angelology, with six (or seven) archangels at the head of the developed hierarchy; (2) these angels not mere companions of God but His intermediaries, established (often) over special domains; (3) in the philosophical religion, a corresponding doctrine of hypostases; (4) as a result, a remoter conception of God; (5) a developed demonology; (6) the conception of a supreme head (Satan) over the powers of evil; (7) the doctrine of immortality; (8) rewards or punishments for the soul immediately after death; (9) a schematic eschatology especially as regards chronological systems; (10) a superhuman Messiah; (11) bodily resurrection; (12) a rationalized, legalistic conception of God's moral demands....

  International Standard Bible Encyclopedia ...

  ... The following deuterocannonical works should provide evidence of the Persian influence. I would also like to note that the Greek ideas of Hell were very similar to the Persian ideas. This had an added effect of influencing early Christians. The fact that early Christians spoke Greek indicates the extreme influence that the Greek culture had upon the Jews. ...

  It's Interesting that we've both reached the same conclusions through different avenues.

  yeudo

  The search for truth is more precious than its possession
  --Albert Einstein (03/14/1879-1955)--
• 
  78

  Jesus and the two criminals dying beside him.....

  by sandy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been watching a couple of the movies retelling the life of christ and i was wondering about the words jesus said to the criminal who asked him to remember him.. the king james version reads: and jesus said unto him, "verily i say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise" luke 23:43. the new world translation reads: and he said to him "truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.

  " luke 23:43. the movie i was watching quoted or at least was closer to the king james version.

  maybe i am wrong but the same scriptures seem to imply two different things.

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  2. 
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  pseudoxristos

  Leolaia,

  Thanks.

  I took a quick look at your post. It looks like you did a more thorough job then I did. I really liked what I've seen so far. I will look at it again tomorrow when I have more time. Do you mind if I plagiarize some of your material?

  pseudo
• 
  78

  Jesus and the two criminals dying beside him.....

  by sandy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have been watching a couple of the movies retelling the life of christ and i was wondering about the words jesus said to the criminal who asked him to remember him.. the king james version reads: and jesus said unto him, "verily i say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise" luke 23:43. the new world translation reads: and he said to him "truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.

  " luke 23:43. the movie i was watching quoted or at least was closer to the king james version.

  maybe i am wrong but the same scriptures seem to imply two different things.

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  pseudoxristos

  I also agree that pete's interpretation is correct.
  

  Luke's account of Jesus' response to the criminal (Luke 23:43) along with the account of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) can best be understood in light of the ideas that were popular among the Jews of the first century.

  The following are some of the ideas that had become popular among the Pre-Christian Israelites by the first century.

  1. Abraham would receive the faithful after their death (1).
  2. A chasm separated the faithful from the condemned in the afterlife (2).
  3. Rewards or punishments awaited them in the afterlife (3).

  Early Christians would have also understood the reference to Tartarus (4) (5) as a place of punishment for the fallen Angels (6).

  Matthew also provides evidence of influence. Please compare the following.

  Matt 10
   28 Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;
   rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
  
   4 Maccabees  (14)Let us have no fear of him who thinks he kills. (15)Great is
   the ordeal and peril of the soul that lies in wait in eternal torment
   for those who transgress the commandment of God.

  The following deutro-canonical books show that these ideas were established prior to the Christian writings:

  The Apocalypse of Zephaniah 10

  (1)Then the great angel came to me with the golden trumpet in his hand, and he blew it up to heaven. (2)Heaven opened from the place where the sun rises to where it sets, from the north to the south. (3)I saw the sea which I had seen at the bottom of Hades. Its waves came up to the clouds. (4)I saw all the souls sinking in it. I saw some whose hands were bound to their neck, with their hands and feet being fettered. (5)I said, "Who are these?" He said to me, "These are the ones who were bribed and they were given gold and silver until the souls of men were led astray." (6)And I saw others covered with mats of fire. (7)I said, "Who are these?" He said to me, "These are the ones who give money at interest, and they receive interest for interest." (8)And I also saw some blind ones crying out. And I was amazed when I saw all these works of God. (9)I said, "Who are these?" He said to me, "These are catechumens who heard the word of God, but they were not perfected in the work which they heard." (10) And I said to him, "Then do they not have repentance here?" He said, "Yes." (11)I said, "How long?" He said to me, "Until the day when the Lord will judge." (12)And I saw others with their hair on them. (13)I said, "Then there is hair and body in this place?" (14) He said, "Yes, the Lord gives body and hair to them as he desires."

  The Apocalypse of Zephaniah 10

  (1)And I also saw multitudes. He brought them forth. (2)As they looked at all of the torments they called out, praying before the Lord Almighty, saying, "We pray to you on account of those who are in all these torments so that you might have mercy on all of them." (3) And when I saw them, I said to the angel who spoke with me, "(Who are these?)" (4)He said, "These who beseech the Lord are Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. (5)Then at a certain hour daily they come forth with the great angel. He sounds a trumpet up to heaven and another sound upon the earth. (6)All the righteous hear the sound. They come running, praying to the Lord Almighty daily on behalf of these who are in all these torments."

  Testament of Abraham 12

  (1)While he was yet saying these things to me, behold (there were) two angels, with fiery aspect and merciless intention and relentless look, and they drove myriads of souls, mercilessly beating them with fiery lashes. (2)And the angel seized one soul. And they drove all the souls into the broad gate toward destruction. (3)Then we too followed the angels and we came inside that broad gate. (4)And between the two gates there stood a terrifying throne with the appearance of terrifying crystal, flashing like fire. (5)And upon it sat a wondrous man, bright as the sun, like unto a son of God. (6) Before him stood a table like crystal, all of gold and byssus. (7)On the table lay a book whose thickness was six cubits, while its breadth was ten cubits. (8)On its right and on its left stood two angels holding papyrus and ink and pen. (9)In front of the table sat a light-bearing angel, holding a balance in his hand. (10)[On] (his) left there sat a fiery angel, altogether merciless and relentless, holding a trumpet in his hand, which contained within it an all- consuming fire (for) testing the sinners. (11)And the wondrous man who sat on the throne was the one who judged and sentenced the souls. (12)The two angels on the right and on the left recorded. The one on the right recorded righteous deeds, while the one on the left (recorded) sins. (13)And the one who was in front of the table, who was holding the balance, weighed the souls. (14)And the fiery angel, who held the fire, tested the souls. (15)And Abraham asked the Commander-in-Chief Michael, "What are these things which we see?" And the Commander-in-chief said, "These things which you see, pious Abraham, are judgment and recompense." (16)And behold, the angel who held the soul in his hand brought it before the judge. (17)And the judge told one of the angels who served him, "Open for me this book and find for me the sins of this soul." (18)And when he opened the book he found its sins and righteous deeds to equally balanced, and he neither turned it over to the tortures nor (placed it among) those who were being saved but he set it in the middle.

  Greek Apocalypse of Ezra 4

  (1)And the prophet said, "Lord, I shall never cease arguing the case withyou." (2)And God said, "Count the flowers of the earth. (3)If you can count them you also will be able to argue the case with me."

  (4)And the prophet said, "Lord, I cannot count them-I bear human flesh-but neither will I stop arguing the case with you. (5)I wish, Lord, to see the lower parts of Tartarus." (6)And God said, "Go down and see!" (7)And he gave me Michael and Gabriel and thirty-four other angels. (8)and I descended eithty-five steps and they led me down five hundred steps.

  Received by Abraham

  4 Maccabees

  13 Now, therefore, if the seven brothers scorned suffering even unto death, it must be universal conceded that the pious reason is complete master of the passions. (2)For if being enslaved to the passions they had eaten unclean food, we would have said that they had been conquered by them. (3)However, in this case it did not happen so, but by the reason which is commended by God they prevailed over the passions, (4)and so we cannot but preceive the mind's supremacy over them since they overcame both passion and sufferings. (5)How then can we fail to admit, in regard to these men, right reason's victory over the passions, seeing that they did not shrink from the pains of fire? (6)Even as towers at the entrance to harbors repulse the threatening onslaughts of the waves and provide a calm haven for those who sail into it. (7)so the seven-towered right reason of the youths forified the have of piety and tamed the rugged license of the passions. (8)They formed a hol choir of piety as they encouraged each other with the words, (9)"Let us die like brothers all, brothers, for the Law's sake. Let us follow the example of the three youths in Assyria, who despised the same trial by ordeal in the furnace. Let us not be pusillanimous in the demonstration of true piety." (10,11)"Courage, brother!" said one, and another, "Hold on nobly!" (12)And another, recalling the past, said, "Remember whence you came and at the hand of what father Isaac gave himself to be sacrificed for piety's sake." (13)Each one severally and all together, looking at each other with most cheerful mien, aglow with courage, said, "With all our hearts let us consecrate ourselves unto God, who gave us our souls, and let us expend our bodies for the custodianship of the Law. (14)Let us have no fear of him who thinks he kills. (15)Great is the ordeal and peril of the soul that lies in wait in eternal torment for those who transgress the commandment of God. (16)Let us then arm ourselves with the control over the passions which comes from divine reason. (17)After our death in this fashion Abraham and Isaac and Jacob will receive us, and all our forefathers will praise us." (18)And to each one of the brothers as they were dragged away, those who were left said, "Do not shame us, brother, nor be traitor to our brothers who have already died."

  2 Esdras 7

  (26)'Listen! The time shall come when the signs I have foretold will be seen; the city which is now invisible shall appear and the country now concealed be made visible. (27)Everyone who has been delivered from the evils I have foretold shall see for himself my marvellous acts. (28)My son the Messiah shall appear with his companions and bring four hundred years of happiness to all who survive. (29)At the end of that time, my son the Messiah shall die, and so shall all mankind who draw breath. (30)Then the wrold shall return to its origninal silence for seven days as at the beginning of creation, and no one shall be left alive. (31)After seven days the age which is not yet awake shall be roused and the age which is corruptible shall die. (32)The earth shall give up those who sleep in it, and the dust those who rest there in silence; and the storehouses shall give back the souls entrusted to them. (33)Then the Most High shall be seen on the judgement-seat, and there shall be an end of all pity and patience. (34)Judgement alone shall remain; (35)truth shall stand firm and faithfulness be strong; requital shall at once begin and open payment be made; good deeds shall awake and wicked deeds shall not be allowed to sleep. (36)Then the place of torment shall appear, and over against it the place of rest; the furnace of hell shall be displayed, and on the opposite side the paradise of delight.

  pseudo

  Footnotes:

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  (1)

  Jewish Martyrs believed that: "After our death in this fashion Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will receive us and all our forefathers will praise us"

  (4 Maccabees 13:17 in J.H. Charlesworth, The OT Pseudepigrapha, Doubleday, 1983).

  (2)

  "You have escaped from the abyss and Hades, you will now cross over the crossing place... then he ran to all the righteous ones, namely Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Enoch, Elijah and David"

  (Apocalypse of Zephaniah 9:2. Charlesworth, op. cit.).

  (3)

  Now, for the Pharisees, they live meanly, and despise delicacies in diet; and they follow the conduct of reason; and what that prescribes to them as good for them, they do; and they think they ought earnestly to strive to observe reason's dictates for practice. They also pay a respect to such as are in years; nor are they so bold as to contradict them in anything which they have introduced; and, when they determine that all things are done by fate, they do not take away the freedom from men of acting as they think fit; since their notion is, that it hath pleased God to make a temperament, whereby what he wills is done, but so that the will of men can act virtuously or viciously. They also believe that souls have an immortal vigor in them, and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments, according as they have lived virtuously or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but that the former shall have power to revive and live again; on account of which doctrines, they are able greatly to presuade the body of the people; and whatsoever they do about divine worship, prayers, and sacrifices, they perform them according to their direction; insomuch that the cities gave great attestations to them on account of their entire virtuous conduct, both in the actions of their lives and their discourses also.

  (The Antiquities of the Jews Book 18, Chapter 1)

  (4)

  4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of deepest darkness to be kept until the judgment;

  (2 Peter 2:4 (NRSV))

  (5)

  Jude 1:6

  6 And the angels who did not keep their own position, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains in deepest darkness for the judgment of the great day. 7 Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

  Jude 1:6-7 (NRSV)

  (6)

  Tartarus:

  In yet one other passage in the New Testament (2Pet 2:4), "to cast down to hell" is used (the King James Version and the Revised Version (British and American)) to represent the Greek [tartaroo], ("to send into Tartarus"). Here it stands for the place of punishment of the fallen angels: "spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits (or chains) of darkness" (compare Jude 1:6; but also Mt 25:41). Similar ideas are found in certain of the Jewish apocalyptic books (Book of Enoch, Book of Jubilees, Apocrypha Baruch, with apparent reference to Gen 6:1-4; compare

  ESCHATOLOGY, OF THE OT)
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  20

  Find the error (quiz)

  by Schizm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the image below depicts the "manger scene".

  if you look close, and use a little imagination, you can make out the "three wise men" there on the left, and joseph and mary on the right.

  of course the brightest, pulsating "star" above them all is the "star of bethlehem".

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  pseudoxristos

  Why would God make use of angels in the one case, but then make use of a "star" in the other case?

  
  Perhaps the writer of the book of Matthew was so eager to show Jesus as the promised Messiah, that he not only distorted the Hebrew Scriptures to find prophetic fulfillment, but he also resorted to historical inaccuracies to achieve his purpose.

  The mythical nature of the Wise men narrative is so obvious that it is hardly worth serious consideration. Never less I will point out some of the problems.

  First of all, can we really trust the writer of Matthew?

  He begins by screwing up the genealogy of Jesus. Here is what the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia has to say:
  

  1. Peculiarities of Matthew's Genealogy:
  

  (1) The construction and incorporation of Joseph's genealogical tree is, in the light of all the facts, the primary consideration.

  (2) The artificial division into three groups of fourteen generations each. The apparent defect in this arrangement as it actually stands (the third group lacks one member) is probably traceable to a defect of the Septuagint version of 1Ch 3:11, which is reproduced in the Greek gospel (see Zahn, Introduction to the New Testament, English translation, 564, note 4). This arrangement into groups is the more striking because it makes 14 generations from the captivity to Joseph, where Luke makes 20 or 21, and because the first group of 14 is formed by the omission of three names. It is perfectly clear, therefore, that this artificial grouping is essential to the purpose of the evangelist.

  (3) The insertion of the names of brothers, thus following the historical lists and broadening the genealogy by including collateral lines.

  (4) The insertion of the names of women -- a practice not only foreign but abhorrent to ordinary usage. This peculiarity is the more marked when we notice that these names introduce what would be considered serious blots in the family history of the Davidic house (see Mt 1:5, 7).

  (5) The principle upon which the division into periods is constructed: (a) from Abraham to David, (b) from David to the Captivity, (c) from the Captivity to Jesus. Attention has repeatedly been called to the fact that this gives a definite historical movement to the genealogy. It involves the origin, the rise to power, the decay and downfall of the house of David (see Allen, ICC, "Matthew," 2; compare Zahn, N T, English translation, I, 535).

  Next he proceeds to provide six seriously messed up prophetic fulfillments in quick succession.
  

  22 All this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
  23 "Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
  and they shall name him Emmanuel,"
  which means, "God is with us."
  Matt 1:22-23 (NRSV)
  

  5 They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it has been written by the prophet:
  6 'And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
  are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
  for from you shall come a ruler
  who is to shepherd my people Israel.'"
  Matt 2:5-6 (NRSV)

  14 Then Joseph got up, took the child and his mother by night, and went to Egypt, 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet, "Out of Egypt I have called my son."
  Matt 2:14-15 (NRSV)

  17 Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah:
  18 "A voice was heard in Ramah,
  wailing and loud lamentation,
  Rachel weeping for her children;
  she refused to be consoled, because they are no more."
  Matt 2:17-18 (NRSV)

  23 There he made his home in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, "He will be called a Nazorean."
  Matt 2:23 (NRSV)

  3 This is the one of whom the prophet Isaiah spoke when he said,
  "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness:
  'Prepare the way of the Lord,
  make his paths straight.'"
  Matt 3:3 (NRSV)

  
  Most of these are either taken completely out of context, or they rely upon a faulty translation found in the Septuagint ("virgin" instead of "maiden", or Isa 40:3 3 A voice cries out: "In the wilderness prepare the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3 (NRSV))

  As far as the Wise Men narrative is concerned, it is ridiculous. The idea the Magi followed a star to find the child Jesus seems extremely farfetched. If the Magi were indeed astrologers, they would have been very familiar with the movement of the stars. Just as the Sun moves from East to the West during the day, the stars move in an East to West direction through out the night. Astrologers would certainly know that a star could not lead them to a particular earthly location. Perhaps they had interpreted a conjunction of the Planets as a sign relating to the birth of the King of Israel. This would explain their journey to Jerusalem, but it does not explain the re-appearance of the star and it leading them not only to Bethlehem, but the exact house where Jesus was staying.

  It is clear that Zoroastrianism had influenced Jewish thought during and after the exile.
  

  1. Influence on Occident:
  

  Zoroastrianism was an active, missionary religion that has exerted a profound influence on the world's thought, all the more because in the West (at any rate) Ahura Mazda was not at all a jealous god, and Mazdeism was always quite ready to enter into syncretism with other systems. But this syncretistic tendency makes the task of the historian very delicate. None of the three great streams that swept from Persia over the West -- Mithraism, Gnosticism, and Manicheism -- contained much more than a Mazdean nucleus, and the extrication of Mazdean from other (especially older Magian and Babylonian) elements is frequently impossible. Yet the motive force came from Zoroaster, and long before the Christian era "Magi" were everywhere (as early as 139 BC they were expelled from Rome; compare RAB-MAG; BRANCH AND BOUGH). Often, doubtless, charlatans, they none the less brought teachings that effected a far-reaching modification of popular views and produced an influence on so basic a writer as Plato himself.

  2. Popular Judaism:

  Within the period 538-332 BC (that Cyrus was a Zoroastrian seems now established) Israel was under the rule of Mazdeans, and Mazdean influence on at least the popular conceptions was inevitable. It appears clearly in such works as Tobit (Expository Times, XI, 257ff), and Hystaspis (GJV, edition 4, III, 592-95), in many Talmudic passages (ZDMG, XXI, 552-91), certain customs of the Essenes, various anti-demoniac charms (see EXORCISM;SORCERY), and, perhaps, in the feast of Purim. And the stress laid on the prophetic ability of the Magi in Mt 2:1-12 is certainly not without significance. But the important question is the existence or extent of Mazdean influence on the formal Jewish religion.
  International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

  
  It is also believed that Three Kings visited Sirius at his birth.

  Many scholars have seen the key to the Nativity story in astronomical allegory. Take, for instance, those three kneeling figures who were known to the Egyptians ages before they were supposed to have followed a star to Bethlehem. We are told that wise men or magi came from the east, in search of a king whose star they had seen in the east, and Roman Catholic legend says that these wise men were three kings. Now if, on a clear evening in midwinter, we look eastward, we see the most striking of all constellations mounting the sky. The three stars so conspicuous in Orion's belt point to the east from whence they came, as if announcing a marvel. And the marvel comes; Sirius, the most brilliant of all the host of heaven, rises in the east in line with those three stars, known of old as the Three Kings, a name they still bear in some parts of Europe. To the Egyptians, Sirius was the most important star of all, for they regulated their calendars by its heliacal rising. At one period in Egypt, Sirius reached its highest point at midnight on December 24, the moment of the solar rebirth, and accordingly the star was known as the Herald of the Sun. Thus it was true, astronomically speaking, that the Three Kings had "seen his star in the east," the Herald proclaiming the advent of the real King of Kings.

  
  

  yeudo

  "Religion is what the common people see as true, the wise people see as false, and the rulers see as useful."
  -Roman philosopher Seneca-
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  22

  Atheists and prayer

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have read some years ago that, according to the results of a survey in a western country (i think it was germany), the number of people who admitted praying occasionally was far superior to the number of believers in any kind of god.. when i read ancient prayers to the gods or goddesses in a polytheistic context, i notice they are not very different, in form and in content, from the prayers to the monotheistic "god".

  many of the bible prayers (e.g.

  psalms) have probably originated in a polytheistic context, even though we now read them as prayers to the one and only god.

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  pseudoxristos

  Narkissos,

  I prayed a few times (out of habit) after I had stopped believing. I finally realized that it was kind of stupid (to talk to myself) so I quit doing it.

  The Mormons stopped by a few times recently. After about third visit, they asked me to say a prayer. I suggested that they do it the first time, but the last time they came by it became very awkward so I had to give them one quick one. I guess they just couldn't grasp the fact that I did not believe in God, even though I had repeatedly told them so. It seemed really strange to perform their little prayer ritual, but I was tired and ready to be rid of them.

  Pseudo

  "Religion is what the common people see as true, the wise people see as false, and the rulers see as useful."
  -Roman philosopher Seneca-
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  47

  Would your faith be challenged if....................................

  by gumby in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  they find life on mars?.

  as most of us know....they are expecting communication from the spacecrafts they have sent to the red planet.

  they are searching for water, organic matter, and signs of life.. how would your understanding of things change......if at all........if they find life there?.

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  pseudoxristos

  No effect. But, since I?m of the ?swine class? it wouldn?t affect me anyway.

  I expect it to have about as much an effect as discovering that the Earth was not the center of the universe. Those who want to believe are going to believe no matter what.

  pseudo
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  60

  I Am a Christian

  by Greenpalmtreestillmine in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am a former jw just as many here are.

  i have left the watchtower just as many here also have.

  i also died as many here have.. i died, i cried, i died again.

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  pseudoxristos

  gentlesoul ,

  Satan is the controller of all evil as well as the root of all hate, as a Christian you should know this. And for those who read this I really don't care if you want to reply with your bitterness as I know you will, but then I guess it just proves what I am saying. Sabrina don't worry what these who hate God think about you or what you believe, just know full well that as long as you continue to love the Lord he will in return love you and give you your rightful place in Heaven. Gods peace be unto you.....

  I always appreciate it when a Christian refers to Atheists or Agnostics as, ?these who hate God?. Especially when they preface such a statement with the idea that ?Satan is the controller of all evil as well as the root of all hate?? Obviously you haven?t a clue as to what the Atheist/Agnostic viewpoint is all about.

  If it helps to reinforce your limited worldview, please view this as a bitter response from one ?controlled by Satan? that ?hates God?.

  pseudo