Posts by FWFranz

148

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

by cofty in

the following is an extract from something i wrote 16 years ago soon after leaving the watchtower.

i am posting it because it may help honest jws consider how far their beliefs are at odds with new testament christians.

if they have "the truth" then their attitude to jesus ought to reflect that of the apostles.

FWFranz

Hi Cofty

Thanks for a detailed and well thought out presentation. I think that most witnesses are not really students of the bible and therefore most of what you have said here they will have missed. Yes, that is hard to believe, but true. They don't appreciate the elevated position that was conferred upon Jesus after his resurrection. The plain statements of scripture bare this out. In the mind of a JW, they feel that if they where to show this type of admiration and acknowledgment of the Son, this would somehow be immediately diminishing the same for the Father. Through deep study my own understanding of Jesus role has been magnified, though I don't espouse a trinitarian position.

FWFranz

29

How the Governing Body Solved Another Problem

by Cameron_Don in

jw
friends

that interpretation had caused a problem that the governing body was never able to satisfactorily explain.

they needed to be able to show that there has always been a functioning faithful and discreet slave in one form or another ever since.

but they were never able to provide any evidence for the existence of an ongoing 1900 year-old slave prior to the appearance of the watchtower society.

FWFranz

Hi Don

Virtually all WT explanations of the parable of the "faithful and discreet slave" beg questions that have no logical answers. The latest iteration has a very valid question. From the death of the apostles onward up until 1919, how where true Christians being fed spiritually? Certainly they cannot reasonably claim that for almost 1900 years there where absolutely no genuine Christians. If they existed, how where they fed? And if the method used by Jesus to feed his sheep was working just fine for 1900 years, what would be the need to suddenly alter that method?

FWFranz

54

Do you call your father by his legal name? Should we for God?

by trujw in

jw's make much of calling god jehovah as if somehow this makes them better than us.

do we call our mother's by their legal name?

if you do or do not does that make the other less a son or daughter of god?.

FWFranz

I believe that within the WT mindset, their insistence on using the divine name virtually all the time identifies a flaw in their theology. It is quite apparent that God's name is non existent in all known copies of the NT. To my knowledge not even a single Koine Greek copy has the divine name in its entirety anywhere. (only Jah shows up once in the Revelation) I believe this absence is quite intentional. It speaks volumes about the Christians relationship to God. Jesus always referred to God as his father in pray and this example is to reinforce our new relationship with God as his adopted sons. The WT denies this relationship as adopted sons to most of its members. Did Paul identify any brethren who did NOT cry out abba Father. Of course he did not.

FWFranz

103

Greetings! From an Existent JW!

by Ethos in

jw
friends

i'd like extend a greeting to all members of jwn.

i've been a lurking by-stander of this forum for approximately 6 months.

i think this forum's best moments can be attributed to the involvement of actual jw's in doctrinaire discussions and to heated (though not always dialectic) debates.

FWFranz

Hi Ethos

Welcome to JWN. I am happy to hear that you are fearless about open minded debate and exchanges of ideas. I would like to ask you a question about the supposed appointment of "the slave". There is an aspect of this teaching that didn't show up in Rays book "Crisis of Conscience" or Don Camerons book, "Captives of a Concept". And it certainly didn't show up in the Proclaimers book! The WTS claims that their appointment was merited because of teaching correct doctrine. I think all JW's would agree that the doctrine of atonement achieved through Christs single, and one time sacrifice, is a foundational belief. I believe that the WT's current teaching on this is correct and I am assuming you believe this. Are you aware of the fact that this understanding of the atonement was not always taught by the WTS. At the time of their supposed inspection and appointment in 1918/1919, they taught something that you and I would acknowledge as utterly apostate and heretical. At the time of the"slaves" appointment they held an utterly false belief regarding Jesus sacriice and its atoning value. How so you may ask. Have you read the book published by the WTS in 1881 called "Tabernacle Shadows". Bro. Russell wrote this book. I would highly recommend reading this. All Bible Students at the time accepted this as "the truth" on the doctrine of the atonement. In a nutshell it taught that Jesus sacrifice at Calvary did not result in a finished work of atonement. According to Russell there was much more work to be done. Russell's doctrine of the "sin offering" is something that is in addition to the ransom sacrifice that Jesus provided. This "sin offering" would take the entire gospel age and would be finished when the last body member had died faithfully. The value of that "sin offering" would be presented to Jehovah just like Jesus sarifice. Bible Students today teach this doctrine as they hold to Bro. Russell's writings almost to the letter. Again I would highly recommend you reading Tabernacle Shadows. Its available in its entirety online. You will see why the WTS doesn't talk about this doctrine in their literature. Its embarrssing to say the least, and it would out them as not understanding the most fundamental doctrine of Christianity, the atonement achieved through Jesus sacrifice. So, I ask you this question. Do you think that Jehovah and Jesus would choose a group that embraced and taught a heretical teaching on the most fundamental of all Christian doctrines.

FWFranz

36

How do I disprove "New Light"?

by DarkFireWolf in

i currently am a jw and my parents are too.they seem either confused or dislike it when i raise questions and recently, when i questioned them about 1925 and 1975, i've been told it's changed due to "new light.

" i don't remember nor do i have very much knowledge of "new light.".

this "new light" just dosen't sit with me and neither do the false prophecies.new light first of all, breaks a scripture in deut.

FWFranz

Hi DarkFireWolf

You have raised a very valid question about the WTS. I believe you are definitely on the right track by applying the biblical standard of a true prophet of God in Dueteronomy 18. The WTS has clearly identified itself as God's one and only end time prophet and this is their undoing. The scriptures condem them as a false prophet that God has not spoken through. The use of Proverbs 4 is taken out of proper context. If you read the entire fourth chapter of Proverbs you will quickly realize that the Society has perverted the meaning of this scripture to suit their own fantasies as a prophet of God. If you where to ask each member of the Governing Body seperately how God communicates with them, they would provide a very nebulous answer that would bare no resemblance to how first century Christians received divine revelations from God. According to scripture the revelations given to Paul where profound experiences that left and indelible imprint on his mind. Can the Governing Body share any similar experiences? I think we already know the answer to this. The WTS has replaced the work of the holy spirit of God with an uninspired, failed, self appointed prophet. I hope you are able to show your parents that the WTS's failed predictions are the blueprint for a false prophet. Be patient, as it may take a long time for the scales to drop from their eyes, if ever.

FWFranz

39

I just finished Crisis of Conscience today....

by dontplaceliterature in

disclaimer:.

i really hate to hijack this thread, but i wasted my one 24hr post on that window washing thread last night.

i don't think i'll have an opportunity to post this up here if i wait, and would like to get it done before the weekend.

FWFranz

Hi Phizzy

Please elaborate, as I am not exactly sure in what way this is nepotism.

FWFranz

39

I just finished Crisis of Conscience today....

by dontplaceliterature in

disclaimer:.

i really hate to hijack this thread, but i wasted my one 24hr post on that window washing thread last night.

i don't think i'll have an opportunity to post this up here if i wait, and would like to get it done before the weekend.

FWFranz

Ray's book "Crisis of Conscience" was the book that started my journey out of the WT mindset. Personally, I think Ray did a superb job. That book caused me to dive into intensive research into the early days of the WTS. I saw after awhile that the Proclaimers book was indeed a white washed history of the organization. I realized that if the WTS had included ALL of their early history in the Proclaimers book, that next to no one would have faith in them as God's end time prophet. I must also thank Ray for helping many of us not to lose faith even if our conclusions about the WT where quite disappointing.

FWFranz

37

Looking for a new Bible translastion to read

by eyesropen323 in

what would everyone recomend as far as what bible translation to read instead of the jw new world translation?.

FWFranz

For accuracy I prefer the NASB ( New American Standard Bible) as well as the ESV ( English Standard Version). The ESV also has a very good interlinear that I would highly recommend. I am also a fan of the NKJV ( New King James Version) Its a very well done update on the old KJV and its reads beautifully. As has been stated, no single translation is perfect, but the first two I have recommended are endorsed by many scholars as the most accurate. Websites like biblegateway are a great way to compare subtle differences in translation. I would always recomend doing that when you have a verse that deserves to be studied by a comparison. As interlinears go, I still use the Kingdom Interlinear. Its quite good when you stick to the left hand side where a direct english translation is given for the greek. It shows clearly where the Societies translators have chosen to depart from a strict reading to shore up their own theological bias.

FWFranz

P.S. Nice to see some on this forum who are still reading the good book.

18

Announcement at Kingdomhall about FDS being only the Governing Body

by EndofMysteries in

the relative who called me and told me that said it was a good thing.

.

FWFranz

I think the word is out among the rank and file. I called my mother to spring the news on her and she had already heard about it at the hall. Generally my mother is pretty out to lunch about WT doctrinal teachings, especially new ones, so if she knew, it must have circulated. I did leave her with one question to ponder. I asked her if there where any biblical examples of actual servants of God who where divinely appointed, and then took the next 93 years to get it straight in their heads about the identity of their own appointment.

FWFranz

54

who was the craziest person in your congregation?

by grumblecakes in

jw
friends

pls share, i love these stories!.

FWFranz

Though some of these stories are undoubtedly humorous, it is a little unkind to make light of people with serious mental health issues. I did want to share some extremely funny stories about a few major lunes that crossed my path while pionering in the 1970's but after careful consideration I think I should refrain. Instead I will share some questionable behaviour from my extended witness family that was never dealt with by any in a leadership position. Extreme power drinking. By this I mean most of the adults coming home from an assembly or a meeting and gathering at my grandmothers house to drink themselves into a blind stupor. Of course everybody eventually drove themselves home, even though they couldn't see the steering wheel. I still remember the sound of my aunt Helen screaming in an incoherent garbled voice about how great life was going to be in The New World as we used to say in the day, and promptly passing out in her easy chair. Now to be fair to the family at large we are of Russian and Irish extraction, so the amount of alcohol consumed that would be considered normal at say a sunday dinner would kill a normal person. This went on for decades and no one said much of anything to anybody. Many of them are now dead and the rest still standing are utterly pickled. If we see them again in the resurrection, I am sure they will be appointed to look after the fruit of the vine.

FWFranz