Correct freemindfade. It's not a top down sanctioned thing. Just as there are "apostates" in the org, who leak info,(even high up - eg. circuit overseers) there are "lone wolves" who take it upon themselves to "spy" on apostate websites and harass people.
Nitty-Gritty
JoinedPosts by Nitty-Gritty
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Warning: Watchtower computer dept. registers accounts on Ex-JW sites, coerces people to divulge their personal details
by WTS Archive inwe had a bad experience with watchtower trying to infiltrate our forums.
let this story be a warning for all you guys here.
if you value your privacy do not ever send your real contact details to anyone, even if you trust them (because their accounts could be hacked or accessed by their relatives - and yes, this happened to people i know several times already).
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Nitty-Gritty
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Other Religions use the Name JEHOVAH too
by UnDisfellowshipped inare jehovah's witnesses really the only religion that promotes and preaches the name of jehovah?.
jw's are always claiming that they are the only religion that preaches and uses the name jehovah, and that is why only they will be saved.
for example, look at this quote from the watchtower:.
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Nitty-Gritty
In all these websites you posted, Jehovah is either used in the title of the off shoot of these religions or in a song. These websites do not "make known the name of God" they do not promote it nor preach it. In fact one of the mission statements is: “to Exalt the Savior, to Evangelize the Lost, to Strengthen society through mission outreach, and to Edify the saints through the preaching and teaching of God's word until we all become unified in the faith and the knowledge of Jesus Christ our Savior, as prescribed by God in the Holy Scripture.” As opposed to the mission statement in part of JWs “The Bible says: “May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” (Psalm 83:18) Therefore, we worship only Jehovah God, and as his Witnesses, we endeavor to make known his personal name.—Isaiah 43:10-12.”
Have any of you actually read or listened to any of those websites?? And then compared them to jw.org? There is no comparison. One guy apparently thinks that singing in a choir is “preaching and teaching God’s word” and that’s just one example. No mention of Jehovah of course, it’s all about Jesus. And they pray to Jesus.
So no, JWs are still the only ones who “Preach and teach and use God’s name” to the full extent possible.
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I have to get this off my chest...cult equals guilible
by Sour Grapes intwo weeks ago while visiting a friend in north carolina, i agreed to go with him to the sunday public talk.
the public talk was about how the witnesses have the direction of angels while going in service.
the speaker told some real doozies and you could hear the "oohs and ahhs" from the audience.
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Nitty-Gritty
Actually, you summed up the answer without even realizing: "So in the talk several people, because of the hand of God, became Bible studies and in the new stories I mentioned 26 Witnessed died serving God. You tell me if you believe in angelic direction".
Angelic guidance and/or protection has never been about "temporary life" but about "everlasting life".
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Has anyone noticed the JW movies are trying to normalise their lifestyle?
by truthseeker inhaving watched the prodigal son returns movie produced by the organization and a recent mini-clip of a brother in london who is shown jogging and doing normal everyday things while wanting to "reach out" it occurred to me that the organization is trying to normalize their bizarre lifestyle and beliefs for the benefit of non-witnesses.. what do i mean by normalization?
they try to make the witnesses look like just another christian denomination who are reasonable while their members live and enjoy normal lives that appear to be within the mainstream.. they do this by not mentioning anything to do with higher education, armageddon or the urgency of the end of the world nor is their discussion or mention of the blood issue.
these are things mentioned often at kingdom halls and in study articles.. watching the prodigal son returns, the family appears to live a normal life, going to meetings and studying.
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Nitty-Gritty
@ toesup,
I think the "normal" things under discussion here were those that were evident in the movies. Not the kind of stuff you described.
@truthseeker You may not realize this, but these movies are not made up, they are actually based on real life events and real experiences of JWs. Zach and the other girl (I forget her name) are sitting together at the KH because they are actually married (they eloped) and when Zach and Liz talk, they are not alone, they are in a coffee shop. When Liz says she wants to take a few classes, that does not mean what you think, she minimizes going into detail because this was not the focus of that particular setting, and in America, you can take classes online, in your own time, at home.... especially for certificate programs.
And if I may mention again, these movies are not for the general public, they are for JWs, therefor any suggested intention to "mislead" people on the outside, is not applicable.
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Latest on Greg Stafford
by Nitty-Gritty infor all those who know who greg stafford is/was.
the former "apostate/apologist and author of three dissertations and other books, is on page 2 of the march 2016 meeting work book.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/jw-meeting-workbook/march-2016-mwb/meeting-schedule-mar7-13/welcome-memorial-guests/.
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Nitty-Gritty
No. I have it on good authority that it is him. -
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Latest on Greg Stafford
by Nitty-Gritty infor all those who know who greg stafford is/was.
the former "apostate/apologist and author of three dissertations and other books, is on page 2 of the march 2016 meeting work book.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/jw-meeting-workbook/march-2016-mwb/meeting-schedule-mar7-13/welcome-memorial-guests/.
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Nitty-Gritty
For all those who know who Greg Stafford is/was
The former "apostate/apologist and author of Three Dissertations and other books, is on page 2 of the March 2016 meeting work book.
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Has anyone noticed the JW movies are trying to normalise their lifestyle?
by truthseeker inhaving watched the prodigal son returns movie produced by the organization and a recent mini-clip of a brother in london who is shown jogging and doing normal everyday things while wanting to "reach out" it occurred to me that the organization is trying to normalize their bizarre lifestyle and beliefs for the benefit of non-witnesses.. what do i mean by normalization?
they try to make the witnesses look like just another christian denomination who are reasonable while their members live and enjoy normal lives that appear to be within the mainstream.. they do this by not mentioning anything to do with higher education, armageddon or the urgency of the end of the world nor is their discussion or mention of the blood issue.
these are things mentioned often at kingdom halls and in study articles.. watching the prodigal son returns, the family appears to live a normal life, going to meetings and studying.
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Nitty-Gritty
@ Truthseeker
These movies ARE for JWs, nothing to impress outsiders. The fact is, JWs do do "normal" things, I don't know what you did when you were a JW, but all the families I know are pretty much like this.
You should also watch "What is True love" and "these words....must be on your heart".
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Greg Stafford no longer a JW
by My Struggle inthis may be old news to some while most won't even know who he is.
in case you don't know him, he was a jw that defended many of the jw doctrine publicly.
he did this mainly in the form of two books, jw's defended and three dissertations on the teachings of jw's.
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Nitty-Gritty
Greg Stafford is pictured on page 2 of the March 2016 meeting work book. I am not sure, but I think he WAS eventually disfellowshipped for apostasy, but is now evidently back..
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/jw-meeting-workbook/march-2016-mwb/meeting-schedule-mar7-13/welcome-memorial-guests/ -
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Ridiculous statements in this weeks study article
by the truth is mine inmaybe it is just me but when i read this paragraph all i could do is shake my head and wonder how i used to buy into this crap and how people don't wonder what the hell the writers are thinking'.
"imagine what life would be like if god did not have love for mankind.
we merely have to look at the awful history of this world with its human rulerships under its unloving and wrathful god, satan the devil.
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Nitty-Gritty
You completely missed the point. It's talking about the prospects for the FUTURE.
"... This shows us how horrible the FUTURE would be IF the universe were to function without the operation of God’s love."
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Reveal News: How Jehovah’s Witness leaders are responding to child abuse scrutiny by Trey Bundy
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://www.revealnews.org/blog/how-jehovahs-witness-leaders-are-responding-to-child-abuse-scrutiny/.
by trey bundy .
december 14, 2015 .
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Nitty-Gritty
@ Brock
Thank you for your comments. You ask:
"Why would an innocent organization stonewall a reporter who could help them clear up misconceptions?"
The org. HAS talked to some to clear up misconceptions. For example recently during the ARC hearing, and also in their “rebuttal” of Angus Stewart’s submission. It seems to me though they do not trust Mr. Bundy to be genuine in wanting to clear up any misconceptions. There must be a reason for that. But if Mr. Bundy is genuine in wanting to clear up misconceptions, then he can read WT’s “rebuttal” to Angus Stewart and write an objective report about that.
Regarding the child abuse problem specifically, this recklessness and hubris consists of them thinking they actually know better than the authorities on how to handle "congregational matters" and "to keep free from reproach on Jehovah". They don't consider that the "two witness rule" is one of principle to make sure an innocent person is not convicted on one person's word, but that in modern times this can mean guilt being proven in more ways than literally "two witnesses to the same alleged event."
The org. is concerned with the spiritual aspect of sin, in which case it is probable that it does know better than the authorities, who do not concern themselves with this aspect. Also as regards the “two witness rule” it IS the whole point that an innocent person does not get convicted on just one person’s word. That is the whole point of the Bible stating this rule. However, you are incorrect when you say that literally two people are required to witness the one event. It can be two people to a separate event, and one of those witnesses does not have to be a person. Forensic evidence etc. also counts as a witness.
I don’t think this has anything to do with arrogance, or hubris and recklessness as you call it. The GB believes it is the “faithful and discreet slave” (whether the FDS is real or not is each person’s opinion but for the sake of argument we will assume the FDS is a fact, in any case, they believe it is a fact). As the FDS, it has grave responsibility towards God. So rather than being arrogant and reckless in applying and interpreting scripture, they are anxious and fearful that they may be doing so correctly. Hubris and recklessness has no place among professed Christians in God’s eyes. They are concerned with doing everything right by God. If I was to be extreme in my expression I would say they are “obsessed” with doing so. Because according to scripture, if the FDS is found lacking, he (Jesus) “will punish him (FDS) with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be” (Matt 24: 48-51). If I was the FDS, I would not like to be found on the wrong side of God, and obviously they don’t either.
Sure, families can talk to disfellowshipped ones "if they want to", sure a family can report an alleged abuse to authorities "if they want to", sure someone can get a blood transfusion "if they want to", but they will pay the price for it in their congregations one way or the other, either by losing privileges, losing friends and family relationships or even being disfellowshipped for good.
This is actually not a lie at all. It is the truth. Everyone has the privilege to exercise their right of freedom of choice. This right to choose was given to the first human couple (if you believe Adam and Eve were real) and this right has never been retracted or taken away. But there is the law of consequences. A person can eat undercooked chicken if they want to, but that does not mean they will escape the consequences of salmonella. Everything we do has consequences, whether good or bad. People who are honest with themselves, accept that. However, society in general has tried to evade these consequences. People want to have their cake and eat it. With everything. They want to smoke without getting lung cancer, they want to have sex without commitment, they want to break rules without paying a fine….the list goes on….. by the same token those who got baptized as JWs have accepted they will live by certain rules. Those rules have not changed, neither have any been added.
As for a family reporting an alleged abuse to police, well that falls outside the parameters of congregational involvement. I grant you that yes, some in the past have been discouraged from going to the police. But those cases are based on personal beliefs of the Elder involved in the case, and not on WT policies. WT has NEVER discouraged a victim of child sexual abuse from reporting to the police and has never punished them because of doing so.
Here is a story and opinion of a victim of sexual abuse who is and remained an active JW:
I am seeing a psychotherapist and have come to the conclusion that I am the victim of what could be called a negative sexual experience as a child. The other boy who did this went on to do more serious sexual abuse in the congregation. The parents were given the option to report to the authorities which they chose to do, and received no sanctions from the Elders. The boy was not baptised and was severely disciplined and was interviewed by the police, who felt that he had made a mistake and was not a general danger to children.
I could report the separate abuse of me if I wanted, but I choose not to. The abuse happened 20 years ago and I only really accepted what had happened about 6 years ago, when I was 22 years old. From age 8 I believed that I was a fornicator and was loathed by Jehovah God. Despite 6 years of therapy I couldn't even say out loud what had happened and had to write a letter to my therapist to explain what happened. That is how difficult it is to talk about! How do you think I would feel having to go over it all with police and give evidence in court?! My younger brother visited a court as part of his law studies and he said that there was a little kid who was the victim of child sex abuse in tears giving evidence because the defence lawyer was tearing into him, calling him a liar etc. A little kid!
I understand why parents on this forum (JW forum) do not understand why victims and their families to not report allegations to the authorities, but as a victim myself, I completely understand, and if the elders had a policy of mandatory reporting, it may well put victims off from talking to their spiritual shepherds if they know that they will report the allegations to police.
It severely angers me to see apostates campaigning to change our policies when many of them are not victims themselves and are completely ignorant of the process and just want to use this issue to their own agenda.
With regard to me, I am starting to heal and am taking steps to move towards true Christian forgiveness of my abuser. I have come to see him as a victim himself and hope to be reconciled soon. I have never blamed Jehovah or his organisation, and I hold Satan's system ultimately responsible.