Posts by leaving

16

"Domestics"

by leaving_quietly in

why change who the domestics are?

put simply: control.. think about it.

before the, er, um, "further clarification", the domestics only included the anointed.

leaving_quietly

Why change who the domestics are? Put simply: control.

Think about it. Before the, er, um, "further clarification", the domestics only included the anointed. The great crowd was part of Jesus' belongings. Thus, they claimed authority over all of Christ's belongings, which included the great crowd. Now, however, the GB says they haven't been appointed over all of Jesus' belongings, yet, but to maintain control, they make the great crowd part of the domestics so they can still say they have authority over them.

That's so sly and sneaky that it almost got past me.

37

A Couple of thoughts on July WT

by Phizzy in

i actually got a bucket close by and read some of the study ed.

july 13 w.t my first reaction was amazement at how very muddled the whole thing was, i think if i had all those months to write articles since the noo lite was presented at the agm i could make a much better job of arguing the new ideas, and our very own sd7 could do even better !.

for instance, it is claimed in the chart, and the 2nd article i think, that the harvest began in 1914, by whom ?.

leaving_quietly

I was thinking about the "harvesting" the other night lying in bed. Phizzy said:

For instance, it is claimed in the chart, and the 2nd article I think, that the Harvest began in 1914, by whom?

I thought about Jesus' own statement at John 4:35, 36: "Do YOU not say that there are yet four months before the harvest comes? Look! I say to YOU: Lift up YOUR eyes and view the fields, that they are white for harvesting. Already ?the reaper is receiving wages and gathering fruit for everlasting life, so that the sower and the reaper may rejoice together."

The harvest was going on then. In addition, he basically told them that they were wrong that there were yet four months (yet alone 1900 years) for the harvesting to begin.

70

Why Do You Come To This Site?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i believe that this site, jwn, serves many purposes.

.

some are here almost, out of need.. others are here because they want to know the latest in watchtower world.. still others come here for the entertainment.. why do you frequent this place?

leaving_quietly

I'm simply addicted. I once thought that if I ever *did* leave, I'd stop coming here. But now, I dunno...

13

Another big hole in 1914

by leaving_quietly in

1914 is the year for two major events: the end of the gentile times and the beginning of the last days.. .

the gentile times prophecy (luke 21:24) is a supposition that the "seven times" of daniel 4 had a second fulfillment, thus the 2,520 years prophecy was born with 607 c.e.

as the starting point.

leaving_quietly

Oubliette, LOL!!!! (I know, I know... I just can't help myself... I have to "prove to myself" these things.)

Bobcat... my understanding is that where WTS inserts [continue to] (NWT simply says "will be") could be correct. In other research I've done, the Greek word used (Strong's 1510) has several meanings, thus is a bit of a challenge to translate. One of the meanings carries an idea of 'is and will be'. Actually, here's a snippet from the Strong's definition (http://biblesuite.com/greek/1510.htm):

b. so as to indicate continuance in any act or state (Buttmann, 310f (266)): ?ν διδ?σκων was accustomed to teach, Mark 1:22; Luke 4:31; Luke 19:47; ?ν (T Tr text WH ?λθεν) κηρ?σσων, Mark 1:39; Luke 4:44; ?σαν νηστε?οντες held their fast, Mark 2:18; ?σαν συλλαλο?ντες were talking, Mark 9:4;?ν συγκ?πτουσα, Luke 13:11; ?ν θ?λων, Luke 23:8; ?ν προσδεχ?μενος, Mark 15:43 (Luke 23:51 προσεδ?χετο); once in Paul, Galatians 1:23 ?σαν ?κο?οντες, with the future (cf. Buttmann, 311 (267)): ?σται δεδεμ?νον, ?σται λελυμ?νον, equivalent to shall remain bound, shall remain loosed, Matthew 16:19; ?σται πατουμ?νη shall continue to be trodden down, Luke 21:24, and other examples c. to signify that one is in the act of doing something: ?ν ?ρχ?μενον was in the act of coming, John 1:9 (cf. Meyer edition Weiss at the passage); ?ν ?ποστρ?φων, Acts 8:28.

So, in this case, I don't fault the Society for inserting [continue to] there. It gives the idea that at the time Jesus said this, Jerusalem was already being trodden down by the nations, which was true since at that time, the Romans were the governing authority, and Jerusalem had no king.

However, for it to be fulfilled BEFORE the last days started (or at least at the very start of the last days) does not make sense in the context.

13

Another big hole in 1914

by leaving_quietly in

1914 is the year for two major events: the end of the gentile times and the beginning of the last days.. .

the gentile times prophecy (luke 21:24) is a supposition that the "seven times" of daniel 4 had a second fulfillment, thus the 2,520 years prophecy was born with 607 c.e.

as the starting point.

leaving_quietly

1914 is the year for two major events: the end of the Gentile Times and the beginning of the last days.

The Gentile Times prophecy (Luke 21:24) is a supposition that the "seven times" of Daniel 4 had a second fulfillment, thus the 2,520 years prophecy was born with 607 C.E. as the starting point. We have long looked at the 607 date and there's been many who have documented why this is wrong.

However, today, let's look at the OTHER end of the prophecy...1914.

Luke 21 is part of the Society's weekly Bible reading program this week, so verse 24 was in there. Why this never dawned on me, I dunno... just too many other things floating around that are wrong. Anyway, there it is, Luke 21:24.

WHAT IS THE CONTEXT?

Jesus is here answering the question his disciples posed about the sign of the conclusion of the system of things. We know that well in Matt 24. Here is that same sign in Luke 21. Here's the surrounding verses . . . remember, this is part of the sign of the conclusion of the system of things:

“Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21?Then let those in Ju·de′a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; 22?because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23?Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; 24?and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.
25?“Also, there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and [its] agitation, 26?while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27?And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28?But as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift YOUR heads up, because YOUR deliverance is getting near.”

Note, the comment about the appointed times of the nations comes in admist all the other signs regarding what we call "the last days". So, how is it that this ONE piece of the sign of the last days does not actually occur DURING the last days, but occurs BEFORE the last days begins?

Please shoot holes in my logic. I really want to be proved wrong here.

55

Lot's of talk on the July Watchtower?

by noonehome in

jw
friends

so i've heard lots of talk from within about the 'new light' in this watchtower...i'm yet to look at it in any detail.

i'm kind of surprised actually...i first heard about it here before it was even available but close to the time it did come out people started bringing it up - even our co.. some say things like "have you heard about this?

" or "big changes," or "allot of things they said we believed, i didn't realize,"(lots of that) or "brain-overload" or " too much information, but i've never felt more pumped up" or "it's soo exciting to see jehovah's spirit lead his organization..." or "it requires time to sink in, but it's a good feeling!

leaving_quietly

People are just eating it right up. Slurping it up like a plate full of saucy spaghetti.

Yep... same in the cong. I attend. Strange reaction. I try to drop little comments here and there to make people THINK! My favorite: "They're gonna have to throw away the last 90 years worth of publications!"

17

JWs and Earthquakes

by okage in

yesterday, my wife's sister shared on facebook a screen capture of people talking about the earthquake in china.

the top of the list was a twitter user saying "is it just me or are these 5.0+ quakes coming more frequently" (paraphrasing).

her response "people are finally seeing what's coming" (not paraphrasing).. initially, this pissed me off because there is no increase in earthquakes.

leaving_quietly

The whole "earthquakes on the rise" thing is an incorrect view.

"and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another"

Nothing stated about more earthquakes or an increase in earthquakes. It just simply says: "earthquakes in one place after another". This is unlike another part of the sign: "because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off."

15

New Light?

by Blind_Of_Lies in

jw
friends

have the faithful followers been informed of the new light yet?

i know its going to be in the july wt (i think) but i dont remember how far in advance those get released.

would someone who doesnt read this forum know about it yet?.

leaving_quietly

The July WT has been available for download since April 9th, I believe.

8

JWFACTS.com Great Review of "New Light" and Faithful and Discreet Slave

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/faithful-discreet-slave.php.

leaving_quietly

Good recap, but a couple of issues.

I'm glad the OD book, page 18 was included. And statement associated with the quote is good.

"It is circular reasoning for the Slave to effectively say, "We tell you that Jesus trusts us, so you can trust us."

There's another line of reasoning here that fits better under "Consequences"

Under "Consequences", two things:

It doesn't state that the 2012 change makes it so that the slave is appointed over all Jesus belongings is still future. This is a new change. The appointment over the domestics occurred in 1919, but over all belongings is future. This part of should be reworked. Include a review of w09 2/15 p. 24-28, specifically p. 26 par. 9, which describes what the "belongings" include. This is crucial because what this does is make it so that the 2012 version of the slave has been taking authority all these years when such authority has not belonged to them, according to their own new doctrine.

The second thing is that because the appointment over all Jesus' belongings is yet future, the primary reason we should trust the slave, as mentioned in the OD book, p. 18, is now null and void.

And, I'll add another consequence... since they are not yet appointed, how can anyone say this is God's chosen organization? The choice has not been made, yet.

Just my two cents.

9

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-21-2013 WT Study (PROTECTION)

by blondie in

jw
friends

stay in.

of protection.

jehovah will .

leaving_quietly

Two comments:

In that coming day of fight, “the horse, the mule, the camel, and the male ass, and every sort of domestic

animal”—symbols of the nations’ military equipment—will be affected. Such equipment will be “congealed,” put out of operation as if stiffened by cold.

One wonders whether WTS even reads the Bible. "congealed" has to do with the light so that it can become 'frozen' to be light during both the day or the night. The word appears 9 verses before the talk about the animals, which, Zech says would also be affected by the scourge, not congealed.

Secondly, this whole article shows up a contradiction in the scriptures, if Zech is to apply to the time period mentioned by WTS. Jesus told his disciples to flee to the mountains. This says to flee to the valley.

leaving_quietly

Posts by leaving_quietly